The Veganism Thread

[Odinson]

I implore everyone to take 18min out of their day and watch this video: 

 

https://youtu.be/ao2GL3NAWQU

 

It's not necessarily graphic, but rather very informative. 

[100Tours]

Humans tend to feed on herbivores not carnivores. Thus pigs not dogs. I believe it has to do with the quality of the meat, but we have clearly identified and selected animals that are good for food vs. those that are good for companionship. (Unless you are Chinese, but lets keep this in a western frame for the moment). And it is demonstrated in nutritional studies (and several court cases) that veganism has an increased risk of malnourishment, especially in pregnancy and infants - so you can't just say 'no'.

 

The issue may be that we have become sanitised away from the source or our food, and we can't deal with the reality of animal death any more. Maybe we should require people to slaughter their own food to bring the connections back - it is a convenient fact of modern life that meat comes nicely prepackaged in little plastic containers without any animal connection.

[Odinson]

Humans tend to feed on herbivores not carnivores. Thus pigs not dogs. I believe it has to do with the quality of the meat, but we have clearly identified and selected animals that are good for food vs. those that are good for companionship. (Unless you are Chinese, but lets keep this in a western frame for the moment). And it is demonstrated in nutritional studies (and several court cases) that veganism has an increased risk of malnourishment, especially in pregnancy and infants - so you can't just say 'no'.

 

The issue may be that we have become sanitised away from the source or our food, and we can't deal with the reality of animal death any more. Maybe we should require people to slaughter their own food to bring the connections back - it is a convenient fact of modern life that meat comes nicely prepackaged in little plastic containers without any animal connection.

 

Is this a general statement or a reply to the video? 

[Chris_]

I implore everyone to take 18min out of their day and watch this video: 

 

...

 

It's not necessarily graphic, but rather very informative. 

 

The counter in the top corner is truly unbelievable. But like really unfathomable when you think hard about it.

[Odinson]

Humans tend to feed on herbivores not carnivores. Thus pigs not dogs. I believe it has to do with the quality of the meat, but we have clearly identified and selected animals that are good for food vs. those that are good for companionship. (Unless you are Chinese, but lets keep this in a western frame for the moment). And it is demonstrated in nutritional studies (and several court cases) that veganism has an increased risk of malnourishment, especially in pregnancy and infants - so you can't just say 'no'.

 

The issue may be that we have become sanitised away from the source or our food, and we can't deal with the reality of animal death any more. Maybe we should require people to slaughter their own food to bring the connections back - it is a convenient fact of modern life that meat comes nicely prepackaged in little plastic containers without any animal connection.

 

Humans tend to feed on carnivores/predators a lot. Think of all those little cans of tuna lining your local Spar and PnP. So much so that we're eating the different species to the brink of extinction. And why do you want to leave the those who eat and kill cats and dogs out of the discussion? 

 

There's no epidemiological data proving that vegans suffer from 'malnutrition'. What do you even mean by that?  

 

The point is that the slaughter is unnecessary for the overwhelming proportion of the population. So, there's no need to desensitize folks to the horrors of animal farming. There is another way. 

[Milkman]

Humans tend to feed on carnivores/predators a lot. Think of all those little cans of tuna lining your local Spar and PnP. So much so that we're eating the different species to the brink of extinction. And why do you want to leave the those who eat and kill cats and dogs out of the discussion? 

 

There's no epidemiological data proving that vegans suffer from 'malnutrition'. What do you even mean by that?  

 

The point is that the slaughter is unnecessary for the overwhelming proportion of the population. So, there's no need to desensitize folks to the horrors of animal farming. There is another way. 

 

 

I wouldn't say that humans feed on carnivores " a lot " ? Apart from one or maybe 2 tuna salads a month I cannot think of any other type of carnivore meat I ( and I use myself as a "normal" SA adult here ) eat ?

 

Then as I've mentioned a few times , to say that " slaughter is unnecessary for the overwhelming proposition of the population " is definitely not true . It is not necessary for a select few of the privileged population is more correct .

Edited August 28, 2019 by Milkman

[Milkman]

Humans tend to feed on carnivores/predators a lot. Think of all those little cans of tuna lining your local Spar and PnP. So much so that we're eating the different species to the brink of extinction. And why do you want to leave the those who eat and kill cats and dogs out of the discussion? 

 

There's no epidemiological data proving that vegans suffer from 'malnutrition'. What do you even mean by that?  

 

The point is that the slaughter is unnecessary for the overwhelming proportion of the population. So, there's no need to desensitize folks to the horrors of animal farming. There is another way. 

 

 

Would you honestly say that a strict vegan diet for babies and toddlers living in 3rd world countries where people cannot afford any added supplements would be a good thing ??

[Odinson]

 

I wouldn't say that humans feed on carnivores " a lot " ? Apart from one or maybe 2 tuna salads a month I cannot think of any other type of carnivore meat I ( and I use myself as a "normal" SA adult here ) eat ?

 

Then as I've mentioned a few times , to say that " slaughter is unnecessary for the overwhelming proposition of the population " is definitely not true . It is not necessary for a select few of the privileged population is more correct .

 

 

Any person reading this thread can go vegan. Don't build it up in your mind as some 'white privilege' thing. It just isn't. Most of the basic staples are vegan. Fruits 'n veg, grains, etc. You make it as expensive as you want it to be. 

 

When there's a will, there's a way. 

[Odinson]

Would you honestly say that a strict vegan diet for babies and toddlers living in 3rd world countries where people cannot afford any added supplements would be a good thing ??

 

Is anyone reading this a 3rd world baby or toddler?  

 

Westerners, like you and me, cause much more animal suffering than the majority of people in the 3rd world, who's consumption of animal products typically do not compare to the typical Westerner. 

[Milkman]

Is anyone reading this a 3rd world baby or toddler?  

 

Westerners, like you and me, cause much more animal suffering than the majority of people in the 3rd world, who's consumption of animal products typically do not compare to the typical Westerner.

 

Not really answering my question there , are you ?

[Odinson]

Not really answering my question there , are you ?

 

If hypothetical '3rd world baby/toddler and mom' have access to sufficient pre- and post natal medical care, access to sufficient sources of plant based foods and had guidance in feeding that way, I'd support it. If that same hypothetical '3rd world baby/toddler and mom' already lives at risk of food security/malnutrition, then I'd advise them to do what they need to survive. 

 

Either way, the 'what about people in the 3rd world' straw man does not absolve you, me and everyone else reading this who make conscious food choices from looking at their lifestyle and what they can do to reduce their impact. 

[Milkman]

Any person reading this thread can go vegan. Don't build it up in your mind as some 'white privilege' thing. It just isn't. Most of the basic staples are vegan. Fruits 'n veg, grains, etc. You make it as expensive as you want it to be. 

 

When there's a will, there's a way.

 

The point I was making was not about people on this thread.

I have been trying to explain in some of my previous posts why the whole world cannot go vegan , and why the human race will always need some type of animal based food.

[FlashJordan]

Humans tend to feed on herbivores not carnivores. Thus pigs not dogs. I believe it has to do with the quality of the meat, but we have clearly identified and selected animals that are good for food vs. those that are good for companionship. (Unless you are Chinese, but lets keep this in a western frame for the moment). And it is demonstrated in nutritional studies (and several court cases) that veganism has an increased risk of malnourishment, especially in pregnancy and infants - so you can't just say 'no'.

 

The issue may be that we have become sanitised away from the source or our food, and we can't deal with the reality of animal death any more. Maybe we should require people to slaughter their own food to bring the connections back - it is a convenient fact of modern life that meat comes nicely prepackaged in little plastic containers without any animal connection.

Pigs are omnivores. They are also very good companion animals........ I do agree people should be required to slaughter their own food though, or at least see it being slaughtered.

[Odinson]

The point I was making was not about people on this thread.

I have been trying to explain in some of my previous posts why the whole world cannot go vegan , and why the human race will always need some type of animal based food.

 

No one can predict the future, but if we play our cards right there can be a world in which animal and planetary suffering has been reduced to an absolute minimum. However, that would require everyone who can, like folks on this thread, to make the change and lead by example; 

[Milkman]

If hypothetical '3rd world baby/toddler and mom' have access to sufficient pre- and post natal medical care, access to sufficient sources of plant based foods and had guidance in feeding that way, I'd support it. If that same hypothetical '3rd world baby/toddler and mom' already lives at risk of food security/malnutrition, then I'd advise them to do what they need to survive. 

 

Either way, the 'what about people in the 3rd world' straw man does not absolve you, me and everyone else reading this who make conscious food choices from looking at their lifestyle and what they can do to reduce their impact.

 

 

In what 3rd world country country will a mother and child have access to sufficient sources of plant based foods ?? You’ve got to be kidding right ?

 

And I live in Africa , if you move anywhere out of your major cities here , you are in the 3rd world . So this is not a “straw man argument “ at all. It’s real.

[Odinson]

In what 3rd world country country will a mother and child have access to sufficient sources of plant based foods ?? You’ve got to be kidding right ?

 

And I live in Africa , if you move anywhere out of your major cities here , you are in the 3rd world . So this is not a “straw man argument “ at all. It’s real.

 

Go to both rural and even more urbanized Vietnam and see what people were traditionally eating. People in rural areas of 3rd world countries aren't gorging on salmon and cream cheese bagels for breakfast or fillet for dinner. The bulk of their diet is plant based. 

 

And again, I'm not speaking to those people.

 

The question you should rather be asking and answering is "Why am I not vegan, knowing what I know".