The Veganism Thread

[Odinson]

Hehe the veganazi terms being thrown around are hilarious, its no wonder society hates vegans so much.

It is possible *gasp* to have your own beliefs and follow your own dietary choices without bashing ever else who doesnt agree with you.

Its tantamount to bible bashing and everyone knows how well that goes down.

 

RB, I mean this sincerely, have you taken the time to reflect on why it is that vegans advocate? 

[Eldron]

Hehe the veganazi terms being thrown around are hilarious, its no wonder society hates vegans so much.

It is possible *gasp* to have your own beliefs and follow your own dietary choices without bashing ever else who doesnt agree with you.

Its tantamount to bible bashing and everyone knows how well that goes down.

It's flesh right? From an animal...

 

One man's delicious veal cutlets is another man's dissected baby cow. Both are technically correct.

[GrahamS2]

RB, I mean this sincerely, have you taken the time to reflect on why it is that vegans advocate? 

Much like with religion and other 'isms, the (valid) message content is often lost in all the mouth frothing.

[GrahamS2]

Finally, common sense prevails. https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/crime/parents-sentenced-over-neglect-of-child-on-veganonly-diet/news-story/68bedf9fd1b86a2e04864c27349233d2

 

Such a pity public floggings are no longer allowed

Edited August 22, 2019 by GrahamS2

[stefmeister]

Hehe the veganazi terms being thrown around are hilarious, its no wonder society hates vegans so much.

It is possible *gasp* to have your own beliefs and follow your own dietary choices without bashing ever else who doesnt agree with you.

Its tantamount to bible bashing and everyone knows how well that goes down.

 

Someone should just rename this thread to The Vegan Safe Space.

[Eldron]

Someone should just rename this thread to The Vegan Safe Space.

To be fair it's the meat eaters campaigning for the word "flesh" to be considered hate speech.

 

Personify my butchered cow baby personify it that I may partake of it's flesh I mean delicious cutlets to nourish body as per god's instruction that I, HUMAN have domain over all of his creatures!

[stefmeister]

To be fair it's the meat eaters campaigning for the word "flesh" to be considered hate speech.

 

Personify my butchered cow baby personify it that I may partake of it's flesh I mean delicious cutlets to nourish body as per god's instruction that I, HUMAN have domain over all of his creatures!

 

You're being biased in this, and being deliberately obtuse. Which is not really consistent with your overall postings on this forum.

 

It's about the intent behind those terms. Not the words itself. Pretty obvious, and pretty obvious someone is trying to get a reaction when he's using them. A little too trying too hard, too attention seeking, and kinda cringy.

 

And just for that, I'm going to brutally slaughter some baby cows, rip off the skin, cut their corpses to pieces, drain their blood and enjoy the liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. 

[Chris_]

You're being biased in this, and being deliberately obtuse. Which is not really consistent with your overall postings on this forum.

 

It's about the intent behind those terms. Not the words itself. Pretty obvious, and pretty obvious someone is trying to get a reaction when he's using them. A little too trying too hard, too attention seeking, and kinda cringy.

 

And just for that, I'm going to brutally slaughter some baby cows, rip off the skin, cut their corpses to pieces, drain their blood and enjoy the liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. 

 

Ah you're drinking already, now it makes sense.

[stefmeister]

Ah you're drinking already, now it makes sense.

No, listening to Cannibal corpse.

[Odinson]

You're being biased in this, and being deliberately obtuse. Which is not really consistent with your overall postings on this forum.

 

It's about the intent behind those terms. Not the words itself. Pretty obvious, and pretty obvious someone is trying to get a reaction when he's using them. A little too trying too hard, too attention seeking, and kinda cringy.

 

And just for that, I'm going to brutally slaughter some baby cows, rip off the skin, cut their corpses to pieces, drain their blood and enjoy the liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. 

 

I'm triggered by the fact that you assume my gender. 

 

Kidding aside, the intent is clear. Not to use comforting euphemisms. I stated that clearly in my post to Tours. 

[Eldron]

You're being biased in this, and being deliberately obtuse. Which is not really consistent with your overall postings on this forum.

 

It's about the intent behind those terms. Not the words itself. Pretty obvious, and pretty obvious someone is trying to get a reaction when he's using them. A little too trying too hard, too attention seeking, and kinda cringy.

 

And just for that, I'm going to brutally slaughter some baby cows, rip off the skin, cut their corpses to pieces, drain their blood and enjoy the liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

Liked and prayers sent.

 

Your dedication to passive aggressive cowardice is truly inspiring.

[100Tours]

RB, I mean this sincerely, have you taken the time to reflect on why it is that vegans advocate? 

 

Call me slow, but..

 

This is probably the most important learning on this thread - i.e. vegan advocacy - because it seems fundamental to the definition of vegan. Vegans (Odinson, you'll let me know if I'm wrong..?) quite strongly believe it is wrong for anyone to eat meat (or wear leather shoes, wollen jerseys, down jackets), and this is the thing that really defines veganism as being different to vegetarianism (for example).

 

If that holds true then by definition you (as a vegan) believe pretty much everyone non-vegan to be 'a bad person'. Most vegetarians just see it as just a personal choice thing, and as a result they're much more fun around the braai or going clothes shopping.

[Odinson]

Call me slow, but..

 

This is probably the most important learning on this thread - i.e. vegan advocacy - because it seems fundamental to the definition of vegan. Vegans (Odinson, you'll let me know if I'm wrong..?) quite strongly believe it is wrong for anyone to eat meat (or wear leather shoes, wollen jerseys, down jackets), and this is the thing that really defines veganism as being different to vegetarianism (for example).

 

If that holds true then by definition you (as a vegan) believe pretty much everyone non-vegan to be 'a bad person'. Most vegetarians just see it as just a personal choice thing, and as a result they're much more fun around the braai or going clothes shopping.

 

Tours, you're right about your first distinction between vegans and vegetarians.

 

Where I'll disagree with you is the claims as to vegans believing non-vegans are 'bad people'.  Not being vegan doesn't make you a bad person in the same way that being a vegan doesn't make you a good person. 

 

Where I think many vegans take issue is when people are made aware of the suffering of the animals and the planet and still shrug it off or deny it. Still, that doesn't make you a 'bad person', but we, collectively and individually, have to take action where and when we can in the face of injustice. Adopting a vegan lifestyle is one of those ways to take action.

[Eldron]

Call me slow, but..

 

This is probably the most important learning on this thread - i.e. vegan advocacy - because it seems fundamental to the definition of vegan. Vegans (Odinson, you'll let me know if I'm wrong..?) quite strongly believe it is wrong for anyone to eat meat (or wear leather shoes, wollen jerseys, down jackets), and this is the thing that really defines veganism as being different to vegetarianism (for example).

 

If that holds true then by definition you (as a vegan) believe pretty much everyone non-vegan to be 'a bad person'. Most vegetarians just see it as just a personal choice thing, and as a result they're much more fun around the braai or going clothes shopping.

 

In my opinion you're partially right.

 

Vegans are as you say "animal products averse" but the bad person judgement/less fun at a braai is purely your judgement of vegans.

 

I know tons of vegans that are not too bothered by what other people do - I know very few aggro vegans that would proactively judge you and tell you how to live your life.

 

Either I am mixing with a non respresentable group of vegans or the "angry vegan" is a social media construct. Me - I think it's the latter.

 

Edit: What I wrote smacks of the binary thinking that I hate so much. There is probably a full spectrum of vegans from manic child starving weirdo vegan all the way through to silent benign vegans that just don't like torturing/killing animals. In my experience the mean is towards benign not manic...

Edited August 22, 2019 by Eldron

[100Tours]

Tours, you're right about your first distinction between vegans and vegetarians.

 

Where I'll disagree with you is the claims as to vegans believing non-vegans are 'bad people'.  Not being vegan doesn't make you a bad person in the same way that being a vegan doesn't make you a good person. 

 

Replying to both, and I do realise this is a simplificaiton, and that means certain limitations.

 

 

 

Where I think many vegans take issue is when people are made aware of the suffering of the animals and the planet and still shrug it off or deny it.

 

Are farmed animals by definition suffering? Or any animals used by people for that matter. And does not using animal products reduce suffering by this definition? I dispute both points, but if we're arguing about beliefs then that's not going to find a resolution.

 

I'll agree that stock pens for cattle and overcrowded chicken broilers etc. are undesirable, and I think that regulation could do more to improve conditions - i.e. EU rather than US regulatory model. Ultimately though I see a world where we need to utilise animals/animal products.

 

 

 

Still, that doesn't make you a 'bad person'.

 

Less good maybe? You believe that animals are suffering. I am not prepared to work towards putting a stop to it. If I am not ignorant, you must conclude on some level that I am either unethical or stupid? It is an important point - there isn't much space in your world for my point of view.

 

 

 

we, collectively and individually, have to take action where and when we can in the face of injustice. Adopting a vegan lifestyle is one of those ways to take action.

 

injustice echoes the first point - animal utilisation is not unjust in most people's world view. Is horse-riding unjust for example? is it unjust to keep pets? (or perhaps is it unjust to put down an old dog or cat?) Why then is it unjust to keep chickens for eggs or cows for milk, or to shear sheep. And why is in unjust to then slaughter animals for food or leather.

 

Adopting a vegan lifestyle is then a way of making a point about how you feel. but its hardly going to change the world. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by 100Tours

[Odinson]

Replying to both, and I do realise this is a simplificaiton, and that means certain limitations.

 

 

 

 

Are farmed animals by definition suffering? Or any animals used by people for that matter. And does not using animal products reduce suffering by this definition? I dispute both points, but if we're arguing about beliefs then that's not going to find a resolution.

 

I'll agree that stock pens for cattle and overcrowded chicken broilers etc. are undesirable, and I think that regulation could do more to improve conditions - i.e. EU rather than US regulatory model. Ultimately though I see a world where we need to utilise animals/animal products.

 

 

 

 

Less good maybe? You believe that animals are suffering. I am not prepared to work towards putting a stop to it. If I am not ignorant, you must conclude on some level that I am either unethical or stupid? It is an important point - there isn't much space in your world for my point of view.

 

 

 

 

injustice echoes the first point - animal utilisation is not unjust in most people's world view. Is horse-riding unjust for example? is it unjust to keep pets? (or perhaps is it unjust to put down an old dog or cat?) Why then is it unjust to keep chickens for eggs or cows for milk, or to shear sheep. And why is in unjust to then slaughter animals for food or leather.

 

Adopting a vegan lifestyle is then a way of making a point about how you feel. but its hardly going to change the world. 

 

Tours, put your arguments in the human context and see how you view them. 'Are slaves by definition suffering...' If you reject those arguments, then you agree with veganism. Why? Because animals are just like us in all the ways that matter. They desire to be with their own kind. To have freedom of movement. To be free from pain. To have and raise their young. Our exploitation deprives them of those basic freedoms. 

 

For a long time people exploited slaves in the same way that we now exploit animals. We deprived them of basic freedoms and justice to serve our selfish needs (this goes beyond just the food system). 

 

And I disagree with your last point. Veganism does and will change the world. Perhaps not in the way that many people think and perhaps it will still take a considerable time, but it will.