Bicycle insurance

[Bub Marley]

12 minutes ago, Tandemuis said:

Thank god you are not my broker!

So you are one of "those" brokers that don't fight for their clients. Great.

Just doing the bare minimum for that commission...LOL

 

If that’s what you took out from everything I’ve said then fair enough.

[Tandemuis]

6 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

the tension in the system is the broker vs the assessor. The insurance company's interests are looked after by the assessor; the clients by the broker. If the insurance company can obtain a R140,000 bicycle for R120 000 but the client's needs have been met.

Thats win-win.

If the pay out is via a voucher card that can be redeemed at any bicycle shop then it's not unfair to the client, usually this means the excess is waived. If you want the cash you get it minus the Excess.

Where i have a problem is when the assessor gives you a voucher that can only be redeemed at a specific bike shop that may not have a like for like replacement in stock but you're now stuck with them till them can sort you out. I've had this fight and won because my broker got it sorted.

You get brokers and then you get brokers.

Some will do everything thay can for you and treat you fairly and not treat you like a criminal, while others will do the bare minimum and and do payouts on the assumption that you are a criminal.

 

Glad you got yours sorted!

[Bub Marley]

20 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

the tension in the system is the broker vs the assessor. The insurance company's interests are looked after by the assessor; the clients by the broker. If the insurance company can obtain a R140,000 bicycle for R120 000 but the client's needs have been met.

Thats win-win.

If the pay out is via a voucher card that can be redeemed at any bicycle shop then it's not unfair to the client, usually this means the excess is waived. If you want the cash you get it minus the Excess.

Where i have a problem is when the assessor gives you a voucher that can only be redeemed at a specific bike shop that may not have a like for like replacement in stock but you're now stuck with them till them can sort you out. I've had this fight and won because my broker got it sorted.

Wrt the voucher. It’s not actually a voucher. It’s a cash card which you can swipe at any shop. The only thing you can’t do with the card is draw money from it. A lot of the times is not really an issue and the assessors don’t particularly care that much. However, on the odd occasion you’ll get an extremely fussy assessor who does everything by the book. That’s just down to luck though. 

[DieselnDust]

7 minutes ago, Tandemuis said:

You get brokers and then you get brokers.

Some will do everything thay can for you and treat you fairly and not treat you like a criminal, while others will do the bare minimum and and do payouts on the assumption that you are a criminal.

 

very true and in some cases its well deserved too. There are clients who consider their short term insurance to be a piggy bank. Bike falls over and the brake lever gets scratched, claim.....upgrade.

bike falls again, saddle is scuffed, claim.......upgrade.

Brokers and assessors (read Insurers) know who they are as the claims history is there to be viewed and statistically analysed  for purposes against the client.

7 minutes ago, Tandemuis said:

Glad you got yours sorted!

Yip and generally they sort me out. I don't claim for crap like scuffed saddles and scratched brake levers. I fix those things or live with the scar as a reminder to not do something stupid again if I want my bike looking neat beyond the first couple of rides.

I've even worked with the assessor to get a rim replaced and because it was a mismatch to the OEM unit negotiated a % good will due to saving them some cash on the replacement. I used the argument that a mismatched rim pairing would devalue the asset and therefore I'd insure it for less. They weighed up the argument and agreed to replace both rim but with me footing 50% of the undamaged unit and they retain it. Both happy and no body got screwed.

Short term insurance is a risk business. When people cheat the system then they drive the risk up and the costs as well as make it harder for all beneficiaries when it comes to settling claims.

[DieselnDust]

3 minutes ago, Bub Marley said:

Wrt the voucher. It’s not actually a voucher. It’s a cash card which you can swipe at any shop. The only thing you can’t do with the card is draw money from it. A lot of the times is not really an issue and the assessors don’t particularly care that much. However, on the odd occasion you’ll get an extremely fussy assessor who does everything by the book. That’s just down to luck though. 

aaah , I thought it was only shops that were part of the Insurers approved list.

[stringbean]

Haven’t been following thread but just something that happened to my buddy in the last month regards insurance.

Bike insured couple of years,never claimed.

He crashes at W2W and end up with a cracked seatstay torn off rear derailleur and cracked carbon rim.Bike was insured for 90k.

Now the insurance comes back to him and offers him a second hand rear chain stay for bike or for a repair by  CBR Durbanville.replacement of carbon rim with rebuild and new rear derailer.

Now the fighting starts.So it seems that there are a few insurance companies that are starting to push this “repair” scenario so KNOW THE FINE PRINT of your policy.

Who and when is a bike determined as a write off since I’ve seen carbon bikes broken in 3 places that have been repaired and sprayed that not even the agents would notice.

What pisses me off is that brokers are quick to get you to insure for replacement value but then come pushing this “repair “clause to clients.

“

[stringbean]

So it seems carbon repair guys are also part of the loop now.

[Bub Marley]

3 minutes ago, stringbean said:

Haven’t been following thread but just something that happened to my buddy in the last month regards insurance.

Bike insured couple of years,never claimed.

He crashes at W2W and end up with a cracked seatstay torn off rear derailleur and cracked carbon rim.Bike was insured for 90k.

Now the insurance comes back to him and offers him a second hand rear chain stay for bike or for a repair by  CBR Durbanville.replacement of carbon rim with rebuild and new rear derailer.

Now the fighting starts.So it seems that there are a few insurance companies that are starting to push this “repair” scenario so KNOW THE FINE PRINT of your policy.

Who and when is a bike determined as a write off since I’ve seen carbon bikes broken in 3 places that have been repaired and sprayed that not even the agents would notice.

What pisses me off is that brokers are quick to get you to insure for replacement value but then come pushing this “repair “clause to clients.

“

Tell him to get an independent damage report where they state the damage is not repairable. CBR wants business and obviously not gonna say that especially if they vouch for their work. Problem is a bike is not a car. And once you repair a bike, then any value that bike holds is most likely gone.  

[DieselnDust]

17 minutes ago, Bub Marley said:

Tell him to get an independent damage report where they state the damage is not repairable. CBR wants business and obviously not gonna say that especially if they vouch for their work. Problem is a bike is not a car. And once you repair a bike, then any value that bike holds is most likely gone.  

Ditto!

 

Most carbon frame are not repairable yet carbon repairs are common, almost expected by insurers. This is a cheap and dangerous way out. The performance of the bike frame is compromised and failure points are now moved to another location. It's a practice then needs to be more carefully regulated.

A hole in a down tube can be repaired. A hole in the top tube due to brake lever strike can be repaired. A seat stay designed to flex as  part of the suspension action cannot be repaired. A repair here will have a detrimental effect on suspension component wear and safety.

If the bending axis of a frame element is damaged to the point it fracturing or delaminating then the frame is toast. It end of life and no manufacturer will endorse a repair in these critical areas.

[stringbean]

Thanks for the advice guys. Will pass it on.

Another pet peeve of mine is when insurance companies pay out, buy back frame, have it repaired and sprayed and it end up in Hub classified.

Now I don’t mind the whole process but really believe the advertisers should let suspecting buyers know about the history but that is a Friday can of worms to open 

[DieselnDust]

7 minutes ago, stringbean said:

Thanks for the advice guys. Will pass it on.

Another pet peeve of mine is when insurance companies pay out, buy back frame, have it repaired and sprayed and it end up in Hub classified.

Now I don’t mind the whole process but really believe the advertisers should let suspecting buyers know about the history but that is a Friday can of worms to open 

The consumer protection act does stipulate full disclosure but the insurerssell it to the repairers who then either flip it or sell it to their sales chain who don't disclose. These are often the guys operating on Bikehub, FB Marketplace, gumtree and the like. Some do disclose and price accordingly, others don't

[Bub Marley]

35 minutes ago, stringbean said:

Thanks for the advice guys. Will pass it on.

Another pet peeve of mine is when insurance companies pay out, buy back frame, have it repaired and sprayed and it end up in Hub classified.

Now I don’t mind the whole process but really believe the advertisers should let suspecting buyers know about the history but that is a Friday can of worms to open 

Once they pay out the claim then they own the salvage. They’re not actually buying anything back. They’re obviously then selling the frames to limit their losses. What the buyer then did with that frame is on him. Ethically speaking it should be noted that it was a repaired frame. Unfortunately many people don’t operate ethically which is sad. 

[WR 1.0]

3 hours ago, stringbean said:

Thanks for the advice guys. Will pass it on.

Another pet peeve of mine is when insurance companies pay out, buy back frame, have it repaired and sprayed and it end up in Hub classified.

Now I don’t mind the whole process but really believe the advertisers should let suspecting buyers know about the history but that is a Friday can of worms to open 

Insurers don't repair salvage and sell it on Bikehub. Someone else might buy the salvage and do it though. 

[Tandemuis]

I need to apologize to @Bub Marley.

My wife explained to me that not all brokers have the same agreements, facilities and leverage with insurers in order to do certain things. She said that some brokers have to fight and work 10 times as hard for their clients, in order to get the same results.

She explained that they have a couple of million in one of their accounts from which they pay certain clients directly without the insurance company, and every month they square up with the insurers and get their money back. While other clients go the normal route and get paid by the insurers directly.

This combined with 20+ brokers in a single building, with other buildings across South Africa, who can move their entire combined book to a different insurer if another insurer gives them too much trouble, also gives them the leverage to "get away" with certain things.

I have personally heard her on the phone once, telling a branch manager of one of the insurance companies that she will move her entire book away from them if they do not pay out her client's claim immediately. After that phone call she phoned said company's CEO who then immediately arranged for payment. The branch manager phoned back 20 minutes later, very apologetic. She explained to me that this is NOT the norm and she only gets to do that a handful of times a year.

She explained that they are actually very privileged and it is not that easy actually and not a given.

I have just come accustomed to this and her handeling our insurance and our friends  insurance....and for some reason thought that this is how it works everywhere and that if brokers can't do this, they are somehow at fault.

She also explained that if you do not have those agreements you are at the mercy of how someone elses day is going on that specific day. 

She further explained that what is normal for them doesn't necessarily constitute as normal for someone else and in fact can be difficult or impossible for someone else. Insurance companies change branch managers, contacts come and go, relationships are not forever and sooner or later someone has to fight harder in order to get something.

So, I want to apologize to @Bub Marley. I am truly sorry for what I said. I have learned from this, that to never assume something as normal just because it is normal to me. I apologize for saying that you only do the minimum. 

[Tandemuis]

2 hours ago, Bub Marley said:

Once they pay out the claim then they own the salvage. They’re not actually buying anything back. They’re obviously then selling the frames to limit their losses. What the buyer then did with that frame is on him. Ethically speaking it should be noted that it was a repaired frame. Unfortunately many people don’t operate ethically which is sad. 

Look at above post please.

[Bub Marley]

2 hours ago, Tandemuis said:

I need to apologize to @Bub Marley.

My wife explained to me that not all brokers have the same agreements, facilities and leverage with insurers in order to do certain things. She said that some brokers have to fight and work 10 times as hard for their clients, in order to get the same results.

She explained that they have a couple of million in one of their accounts from which they pay certain clients directly without the insurance company, and every month they square up with the insurers and get their money back. While other clients go the normal route and get paid by the insurers directly.

This combined with 20+ brokers in a single building, with other buildings across South Africa, who can move their entire combined book to a different insurer if another insurer gives them too much trouble, also gives them the leverage to "get away" with certain things.

I have personally heard her on the phone once, telling a branch manager of one of the insurance companies that she will move her entire book away from them if they do not pay out her client's claim immediately. After that phone call she phoned said company's CEO who then immediately arranged for payment. The branch manager phoned back 20 minutes later, very apologetic. She explained to me that this is NOT the norm and she only gets to do that a handful of times a year.

She explained that they are actually very privileged and it is not that easy actually and not a given.

I have just come accustomed to this and her handeling our insurance and our friends  insurance....and for some reason thought that this is how it works everywhere and that if brokers can't do this, they are somehow at fault.

She also explained that if you do not have those agreements you are at the mercy of how someone elses day is going on that specific day. 

She further explained that what is normal for them doesn't necessarily constitute as normal for someone else and in fact can be difficult or impossible for someone else. Insurance companies change branch managers, contacts come and go, relationships are not forever and sooner or later someone has to fight harder in order to get something.

So, I want to apologize to @Bub Marley. I am truly sorry for what I said. I have learned from this, that to never assume something as normal just because it is normal to me. I apologize for saying that you only do the minimum. 

No worries, mate. Whilst I agree that if you are have a large book, then clearly you do have leverage. However some times it’s easier also to just chat nicely with the assessor, give him your reasons for wanting a cash payout, and 99% of the time a big insurer like Santam will just do it. So to end off, my advice is don’t just accept the cash card. Chat with your broker and get them to try and get a cash settlement. It shouldn’t be that difficult if you have a legitimate reason.