Aero wheels vs Climbing wheels

[Hype]

You do get some makes of deep sections that are not ridiculously expensive. A set of Bora's is about R20K and they weigh just over 1300g.

 

You can get a pair of Pro-Lite Gavia's for under R7000 and they weigh 1400g.

 

Still a lot more money than a power meter.

[BikeMax]

 

I think that an aero wheelset is far more advantageous than a lightweight wheelset to the average Joe.

 

1. Average Joe is generally heavier anyway and can lose more weight by other means than a lighter set of wheels

 

2. Average Joe is generally stronger on the flats and as such will at least feel some benefit from a more aero wheel

 

3. A deep section aero wheel does give a real benefit (as do most things aero) in comparison to lighter components

 

4. Our rolling courses are ideally suited to a more aero wheel

 

Two points:

 

Surely the benefit of an aero wheel is lost when you're sitting in a bunch?

 

If you are stronger on the flats' date=' and by implication, weaker in climbs, surely there is more advantage to be gained by providing assistance where it is needed most?

 

I do not expect that this discussion will yield a definitive answer, but it is interesting that the wheels that people seem to like most are BOTH aero and light - viz., the Zipp 404's and the Rolf Pros.

[/quote']

 

The aero benefits in a bunch are reduced as you say - but in comparison to a non aero rim, the benefits are still greater. Most riders are not great in a bunch and so spend a fiar amount of time in the wind where the aero rim may help

 

The "relative" advantage of a climbing rim to a heavy average rider is very small and can be mitigated by, say, losing a water bottle. On a flat, most heavier guys are stronger and will ride faster and so feel the benefit of an aero wheel as they speed up.

 

[Prince]

Bikemax, what does that mean for us light guys?

[fatcyclist]

CAADman: that we heavy okes hate you

[Irishj9]

This is all good stuff, guys and gals. I confess I am as easily seduced by Zipp 404's as the next guy ( or gal).

 

BUT............

 

Has anybody here on the Cape tried to descend fast into a surging sidewind using them?. Is the technical blurb applicable to a very tired, average to good bike handler, coming fast off Ou Kaapse into a howling SE?

 

How was the ride to the hospital?

 

[BikeMax]

 

This is all good stuff' date=' guys and gals. I confess I am as easily seduced by Zipp 404's as the next guy ( or gal).

 

BUT............

 

Has anybody here on the Cape tried to descend fast into a surging sidewind using them?. Is the technical blurb applicable to a very tired, average to good bike handler, coming fast off Ou Kaapse into a howling SE?

 

How was the ride to the hospital?

 

[/quote']

 

Yes - and no problems - the effects of a crosswind are much exagerated.

 

[BikeMax]

 

Bikemax' date=' what does that mean for us light guys?[/quote']

 

Well I am sort of in the middle at 70kg - I have a very light 1085gm set of climbing wheels and a set of 404's and I have to say that I race the 404's almost exclusively as the extra 200gms is always offset by the aero benefit I get from the 404's

 

I rode the climbing wheels at Red Hill race and that will be it this year - in fact I am thinking of selling them as the deep section lightweight covers all the bases.

 

[Prince]

Bikemax, what you think of the ZIPP 303 as compromise?

 

 

[BikeMax]

 

Bikemax' date=' what you think of the ZIPP 303 as compromise?

 

[/quote']

 

Not bad - I actually had a set before the 404's as I also liked the slightly shallower profile and felt more comofrtable with it..

 

On balance however the 404's are a better all round wheel - they are a fair bit more aero and similar weight with no real disadvantages over the 303

 

The 404 is the first rim depth where the aero profile is a real benefit and you can really feel this once they are rolling.

 

[Prince]

Thanks BikeMax, good info as always.

[Hype]

What depth are the 404's ? 60mm ?

 

 

 

So Bikemax, you're saying that anything less deep than the 404's is not giving a real aero advantage ?

[BikeMax]

 

What depth are the 404's ? 60mm ?

 

 

 

So Bikemax' date=' you're saying that anything less deep than the 404's is not giving a real aero advantage ?[/quote']

 

404's are 58mm - I will look up the info I have in this subject but if I recall correctly this is the first sort of rim depth that really begins to make a significant difference. The deeper a rim gets the more aero it will be so any deep rim will give some advantage - I guess it is all about finding the balance between handling, weight and aero - this is where i think the 58-60mm depth scores. An 808 for example is a good deal more aero but does carry some handling issues as a result of it's greater rim depth.

 

[BikeMax]

Found this article;

 

"So, what do we want? A wheel that is light and aero and sturdy and

affordable. Simple. What exactly constitutes a wheel being ?aero?? The

single most effective way to make a wheel aero is to increase the depth

of the rim. Generally speaking, the deeper the rim, the more

aerodynamic and the faster the wheel ? the fastest being the deepest

rim of all ? a disc wheel. However, the shape of the rim is a critical

component. Ideally, this shape of the rim should be oval or elliptical.

Note that the only deep section wheels that legally can have that most

aero shape are those made by Hed and Zipp since they both hold the

patent which was originally Hed?s. In some cases, it may be a marginal

difference but technically speaking, the wheels from these two

manufacturers should always be faster than a similarly designed wheel

(i.e, same rim depth, same number of spokes, etc) made by someone else.

That?s not to say that other wheels aren?t fast. There is much debate

whether one wheel is faster than another ? the Hed 3 wheel and the

Nimble crosswind would be one instance. My best guess is that each

wheel may be faster than the other in different conditions but the

differences are probably not worth obsessing about for very long.

Either would be a good choice if that is the type of wheel you are

considering. The next way to make a wheel more aero is to reduce the

number of spokes. Fewer spokes mean faster and lighter wheels but not

without some compromise when it comes to the strength and lateral

stiffness of the wheel. To be really fast, rim depth should be between

50-60 mm and spoke count should be between 16 and 24 spokes (or as low

as 3 spokes in the case of composite spoke wheels). Hed makes even

deeper sectioned rims that are 90 mm and are among the most aerodynamic

wheels made ? only a disc is faster ? but with more rim depth and

aerodynamics comes more susceptibility to crosswinds and handling

issues, particularly for lighter riders"

 

[Hype]

Thanks Bikemax. When discussing HED or Zipp, the HED's certainly have a price advantage.

 

 

 

http://www.racycles.com/wls/catalog/hed_stinger_60__both__4075751.htm

[BikeMax]

 

Thanks Bikemax. When discussing HED or Zipp' date=' the HED's certainly have a price advantage.

 

 

 

http://www.racycles.com/wls/catalog/hed_stinger_60__both__4075751.htm[/quote']

 

The HED wheels have a good reputation in the UK and USA and do seem good value - but seem to be a little heavier.

 

[_Daemon_]

I reckon for the best all round wheels there's little than get close to Mavic Kysirium SL's. Deep dish wheels looks awesome, but...what about crosswinds? Climbing wheels are to fragile for everyday use.