tikki Posted July 24, 2008 Share You are correct, that is jan bergman did work on that design! But how much better would it have been for Raleigh to say that they did the designed solely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikki Posted July 24, 2008 Share The day will come when even the MTN team wont want to ride these crap Raleigh s! Remember these words!!!!!!! ? they'll be on Scotts anyway...... ? The SD team issues? Either that or they will have to burn them. Only time will tell......And no they wont be on Scotts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikki Posted July 24, 2008 Share Kev and Dav were doing rep s up bolders like 7 or 8 times on i think tuesday!!That make me tired just thinking about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted July 24, 2008 Share Don't know about you lot but i saw DG F@#king off up Boulders at the Jock on the new Raleigh Team bike like it was stolen! It's not about the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Begemann Posted July 24, 2008 Share Pity the MR LTD is just a copy of this bike!!When are Raleigh going to come up with there own idea s and design s???? http://www.trenga.de/details2008.asp?kat=2&subcat=7&ID=93&lang=DE Boring Hey, looks like Tikki was clever enough to see that Raleigh is not the same as Orbea, but he obviously doesn't read my blog.http://www.raleigh.co.za/blogs.php?blogId=247&authorId=5There is a big difference between copying a design and sharing a design. Copying is what TokenFreak is trying by selling a non branded carbon frame for R 3950 and telling everyone it's the same as a Raleigh - in fact it is a carbon frame and it has a toptube, downtube etc, but I really hope that non of you guys are so blind that you don't see the difference. Listen to Sean, he mentioned just a few things that make the difference.What we do with Trenga DE is called "sharing" a design. So we put our ideas and thoughts together, and we share the costs for the development and the molds. We operate on different continents, so why not working together? Developing a frame like this - just to give you an idea - costs about USD 80,000. And then you have your very first prototype. After that you start with different frames tests (each test costs ca. EUR 3,000), you have to modify the frame, if you have bad luck you have to pay for some new molds etc. As Probike and Trenga DE both are no global players selling many thousands of bikes of the same design, the costs per frame become very high. Sharing the design for us means only 50% of the development costs and means being competitive to global players like Trek or Scott. This partnership helps both brands on the financial and the technical side, and at the end it reduces the retail price of the bike, which is very important for a local brand like Raleigh.I didn't move to South Africa to forget all I learned about bicycles and just copy other people's ideas. Raleigh is a brand focused on high value for money, and this is the way for us to offer a super high quality suspension bike and still being cheaper than others - wait until we've launched the 2009 prices! Raleigh is not a brand like Scott, so even if we have the ability now to build a super high end carbon frame, we still don't have the image to sell it. If we'd offer a bike like the Scott Spark, one of the most successful bikes of the year, we'd end up selling ZERO bikes. But let's see what the future brings, maybe in a few years we'll find a way .What we do is also not really a new idea. 50% of a Porche Cayenne is a VW Touareg. Citroen, Peugeot and Mitsubishi sell the same SUV (made by Mitsubishi) while Opel and Chevrolet also sell nearly the same SUV, made in South Korea. I think noone would really complain about this, as it makes the cars more affordable for all of us. So what's the problem if Raleigh does the same? By the way, Mampara, we'll have a red version of the road bike as well, but unfortunately this will be the women's version. If you want one, I can offer you yellow, blue (with white line) or white (with red line) Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokenFreak Posted July 24, 2008 Share to myself for trying to do exactly what Major brands do with frames that comes mainly from the same manufacturers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikki Posted July 24, 2008 Share Pity the MR LTD is just a copy of this bike!!When are Raleigh going to come up with there own idea s and design s???? http://www.trenga.de/details2008.asp?kat=2&subcat=7&ID=93&lang=DE Boring ? Hey' date=' looks like Tikki was clever enough to see that Raleigh is not the same as Orbea, but he obviously doesn't read my blog. http://www.raleigh.co.za/blogs.php?blogId=247&authorId=5 There is a big difference between copying a design and sharing a design. Copying is what TokenFreak is trying by selling a non branded?carbon frame for R 3950 and telling everyone it's the same as a Raleigh - in fact it is a carbon frame and it?has a toptube, downtube etc, but I really hope that non of you guys are?so blind that you don't see the difference. Listen to Sean, he mentioned just a few things that make the difference. What we do with Trenga DE is called "sharing" a design. So we put our ideas and thoughts together, and we share the costs for the development and the molds. We operate on different continents, so why not working together? Developing a frame like this - just to give you an idea - costs about USD 80,000. And then you have your very first prototype. After that you start with different frames tests (each test costs ca. EUR 3,000), you have to modify the frame, if you have bad luck you have to pay for some new molds etc. As Probike and Trenga DE both are no global players selling many thousands of bikes of the same design, the costs per frame become very high. Sharing the design for us means only 50% of the development costs and means being competitive to global players like Trek or Scott. This partnership helps both brands on the financial and the technical side, and at the end it reduces the retail price of the bike, which is very important for a local brand like Raleigh. I didn't move to South Africa to forget all I learned about bicycles and just copy other people's ideas. Raleigh is a brand focused on high value for money, and this is the way for us to offer a super high quality suspension bike and still being cheaper than others - wait until we've launched the 2009 prices! Raleigh is not a brand like Scott, so even if we have the ability now to build a super high end carbon frame, we still don't have the image?to sell?it. If we'd offer a bike like the Scott Spark, one of the most successful bikes of the year, we'd end up selling ZERO bikes. But let's see what the future brings, maybe in a few years?we'll find a way . What we do is also not really a new idea. 50% of a Porche Cayenne is a VW Touareg.?Citroen, Peugeot and Mitsubishi sell the same SUV (made by Mitsubishi)?while Opel and Chevrolet also?sell nearly the same SUV, made in South Korea. I think noone would really complain about this, as it makes the cars more affordable for all of us. So what's the problem if Raleigh does the same? ? By the way, Mampara, we'll have a red version of the road bike?as well, but unfortunately this will be the women's version.?If you want one, I can offer you yellow, blue?(with white line)?or white (with red line) ? Jan ?[/quote'] Hi ,I do read you blogs and many others all over the world!Well call it a partnership a copy,what eva!Just would be nice to see something totally fresh ,something that make old bikers like me, Say Wow i think id like one of those! These are my own thoughts!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikki Posted July 24, 2008 Share By the way, the bikes for 09 are the best i ve eva seen from raleigh,i still remember those first schwinn s "painted Raleigh" the team rode with 1kg worth of paint work! So well done on your hard work,but i dont think ill buy one just yet!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted July 24, 2008 Share by selling a non branded carbon frame for R 3950 and telling everyone it's the same as a Raleigh - in fact it is a carbon frame and it has a toptube' date=' downtube etc, but I really hope that non of you guys are so blind that you don't see the difference. [/quote'] Ok..maybe I'm blind. Apart from the decals what is the diff between the unbranded frame and the LTD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngala24 Posted July 24, 2008 Share 'wait until we've launched the 2009 prices!' Hopefully this means they gonna be affordable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Badenhorst Posted July 24, 2008 Share How many tubes are there on the frame of a bike? How can you possibly make every frame that different from another? Ride more, worry less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted July 24, 2008 Share How many tubes are there on the frame of a bike? How can you possibly make every frame that different from another? Ride more' date=' worry less... [/quote'] But why pay more for the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Badenhorst Posted July 24, 2008 Share As far as I know Raleigh sell complete bikes, not just the framesets. How do you compare a full bike with just a frameset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted July 24, 2008 Share Most carbon products is made in the east, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, China and the product u get is the same stuff. Branded or not, aslong as it give you pleasure and fits your pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted July 24, 2008 Share As far as I know Raleigh sell complete bikes' date=' not just the framesets. How do you compare a full bike with just a frameset? [/quote'] If you can get the exact replica of a Pinarrelo Prince frame...unbranded for R9500 and then build it to you specs...will you still rather buy the factory specced bike? Wich will cost you +- R65 000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Begemann Posted July 24, 2008 Share by selling a non branded carbon frame for R 3950 and telling everyone it's the same as a Raleigh - in fact it is a carbon frame and it has a toptube' date=' downtube etc, but I really hope that non of you guys are so blind that you don't see the difference. [/quote'] Ok..maybe I'm blind. Apart from the decals what is the diff between the unbranded frame and the LTD. I will just give you one example: Look at the dropouts. One is using a "normal" dropout, made of alloy, pretty big and the seatstays are fixed with a little steel bolt. It's cheap, because you can use the same dropout for all frame sizes. The new RM LTD has much smaller dropouts with fixed angles. Saves about 80 grams, but means that you need different dropouts for different frame sizes. In our case with 3 frame sizes it means extra costs of ca. R 800 per frame. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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