Gear ratios / mind games?

[Hog_]

Please explain this one:

 

When riding on the big chainring, with a big gear at the back, I feel like it's easier to keep the speed up compared to middle chainring with small gear at the back. Cadence and speed in both scenarios is similar, and the ground sort of flat.

 

Is it just my imagination? Is it because in the in the first scenario I'm probably carrying speed from a downhill somewhere, where as in the second I'm most likely picking up speed from a slower section (hence the middle ring), and my legs are taking strain? Are there proven advantages to using similar gear ratios in different chainring/gear combos?

 

 

 

[turtlek]

you confusing yourself while riding by thinking too much just ride dude

[jabbathemutt007]

 

you confusing yourself while riding by thinking too much just ride dude

 

Seems like your recommendation is that he imagines a really  hot chicks legs around him the moment he starts feeling confused about his gearing.

 

[TitusTi]

Ride a single speed, you won't have these concerns. If you want to go faster, pedal harder.

[Hog_]

 

Ride a single speed' date=' you won't have these concerns. If you want to go faster, pedal harder.[/quote']

 

I would, but I need my granny gear to get up the hills.

 

 

[turtlek]

 

you confusing yourself while riding by thinking too much just ride dude

Seems like your recommendation is that he imagines a really? hot chicks legs around him the moment he starts feeling confused about his gearing.

 

 

 

hold on now i am confused jabba where can i see this hot chicks legs??????

[jabbathemutt007]

 

 

 

 

hold on now i am confused jabba where can i see this hot chicks legs??????

 

Now you want me to post porn links.

 

 

[Hog_]

Aaarghhh! Focus guys! Leave the porn till after the question has been answered!

 

Where's JB when you need him?

 

 

 

[turtlek]

i gonna leave this convo now i am ashamed you would suggest that i would ask you for porn

[Slowbee]

Hog, I think your initial analysis is correct, might have something to do with terrain.

On my indoor trainer, it does seem easier to keep going when in the big gear. Got something to do with momentum and such.

 

With the smaller gears, may be easier to get going, but with the same cadence as a bigger gear you will not be going as fast.

[Johan Bornman]

Please explain this one:

When riding on the big chainring' date=' with a big gear at the back, I feel like it's easier to keep the speed up compared to middle chainring with small gear at the back. Cadence and speed in both scenarios is similar, and the ground sort of flat.

Is it just my imagination? Is it because in the in the first scenario I'm probably carrying speed from a downhill somewhere, where as in the second I'm most likely picking up speed from a slower section (hence the middle ring), and my legs are taking strain? Are there proven advantages to using similar gear ratios in different chainring/gear combos?


[/quote']

 

It probably is your imagination. If the gear ratio is the same, it should all feel the same. Unfortunately there is different accoustic feedback (sound coming from the drivetrain) for the same gear obtained by different combinations.

 

Create yourself a little spreadsheet like this:

 

Sprockets	Chainring 1	"Gear"	Similar Gears
12	53	4.4
13	53	4.1
14	53	3.8
15	53	3.5
16	53	3.3	Y
17	53	3.1
19	53	2.8	Z
21	53	2.5
23	53	2.3	X
Sprockets	Chainring2	"Gear"
12	39	3.3	Y
13	39	3.0
14	39	2.8	Z
15	39	2.6
16	39	2.4
17	39	2.3	X
19	39	2.1
21	39	1.9
23	39	1.7

 

Basically, the "gear" is just the chainring size divided by the gear size. I've the similar gears with X, Y or Z. This means that in three positions on this bike, you can create the same gear in two different ways. Those should all "feel" the same (but will sound differently).

 

If they don't feel the same to you, you are filled with mind games and need to get professional help. A long ride also helps to clear the mind.

 

There are no physiological advantages to using a different combination to obtain the same gear.

 

I use the same spreadsheet to prove that Phil Ligget sometimes talks through is bottom bracket. He says someone is "doing 90kph down a hill. If the person is still pedaling, we know he is talking rubbish because:

 

In this biggest gear he's pushing a 53/11. That's a ratio of 4.8. Multiply that with the circumference of his wheel (which is the same as my wheel) which is 2,085m.

 

This means with every pedal revolution he's progressing 10.05m per pedal revolution. Wathing his legs and from our own experience on stationary trainers, we know he's not doing more than 120rpm, which is 1,20 kilometers per minute or 72 kph.

 

[GoLefty!!]

Yeah sound and vibration has that effect on people, makes them think they going faster than they really are.

 

I had the same effect on a go-Kart. I was looking for an extra second in speed around the 3 sisters rce track outside Manchester. I had the softest rubber I could fit and the tyre pressure was just above the min recommended pressure. So I raised the pressure a few psi and went out. I though I smashed the lap record but my lap time as actually just 0.01sec slower. It sounded faster because the kart was vibrating more..

After 5 laps it made stuff all difference.

 

If you want to think you're riding faster then inflate your tyres till they're rock hard. You'll love the sensation.

[linnega]

 

I use the same spreadsheet to prove that Phil Ligget sometimes talks through is bottom bracket. He says someone is "doing 90kph down a hill. If the person is still pedaling' date=' we know he is talking rubbish because:

 

In this biggest gear he's pushing a 53/11. That's a ratio of 4.8. Multiply that with the circumference of his wheel (which is the same as my wheel) which is 2,085m.

 

This means with every pedal revolution he's progressing 10.05m per pedal revolution. Wathing his legs and from our own experience on stationary trainers, we know he's not doing more than 120rpm, which is 1,20 kilometers per minute or 72 kph.

 

[/quote']

 

While I have done my fair share of bashing of the two P's, they may not be talking through their rears when they note someone is doing 90kph and still pedalling.  The reason being that they may well just be pedalling to keep their legs warm (temps can drop from 35 to 15 degrees on a mountain stage at the Tour - you don't feel it going up but you sure do going down) and not actually engaging the drivetrain.  Depending on the slope and the corners, 90kph is easy to reach.  In the Pyrenees I hit over 90 many times, so I imagine the Alps with its more sloping corners is just as easy.

 

[Johan Bornman]

While I have done my fair share of bashing of the two P's' date=' they may not be talking through their rears when they note someone is doing 90kph and still pedalling.  The reason being that they may well just be pedalling to keep their legs warm (temps can drop from 35 to 15 degrees on a mountain stage at the Tour - you don't feel it going up but you sure do going down) and not actually engaging the drivetrain.  Depending on the slope and the corners, 90kph is easy to reach.  In the Pyrenees I hit over 90 many times, so I imagine the Alps with its more sloping corners is just as easy.
[/quote']

 

Make no mistake, I love the two Ps. But, finding something to say every minute of a 50 hour race does push them into the realm of invention and imagination at times.

 

Linnega, I get your point but I don't think this is the case. It is easy to spot when someone is just feathering the pedals or really pushing to reach a high speed. Feathering doesn't require any energy and therefore won't warm you up. I think these athletes know this and won't be faking at 110 RPM to keep warm if it doesn't work.

 

On a recent trip to Cape Town I drove my mighty rental Hyundai Atos down the Franschoek pass behind a skilled descender who went up to 90kph at times. However, he never attempted to pedal at those speeds, he just tucked in and hung on.

 

I have no doubt that TDF riders exceed that down some of those mountains but I beg to differ that they're pedalling at the time. I've seen Phil mention high speeds when they were still pedalling against resistance.

 

I find that at my modest highest speeds I'm so concerned about staying on the bike and not causing waves and ripples that pedalling distracts me. I would certainly not attempt a bounce-inducing 120 rpm or above. I think at 90 kph and above it's the same for all but the brainless.

 

Perhaps I'm just a sissie. Can anyone here honestly say they're still pushing pedals at those speeds?

 

 

[Mudsimus]

  Feathering doesn't require any energy and therefore won't warm you up.

 

 

 

 

Feathering meaning turning the pedals without excerting force on them? Please explain how turning your pedals with your legs dont require any energy? Even when just moving slightly your muscles still uses some form of energy system, and it will cause a rise in body temp.

 

 

[Mellow]

 

Please explain this one:

 

When riding on the big chainring' date=' with a big gear at the back, I feel like it's easier to keep the speed up compared to middle chainring with small gear at the back. Cadence and speed in both scenarios is similar, and the ground sort of flat.

 

Is it just my imagination? Is it because in the in the first scenario I'm probably carrying speed from a downhill somewhere, where as in the second I'm most likely picking up speed from a slower section (hence the middle ring), and my legs are taking strain? Are there proven advantages to using similar gear ratios in different chainring/gear combos?

 

 

[/quote']

 

Hog, there are two other factors to keep in mind - if you are on the bigger chainring you may have more control over a smooth push/pull stroke when coasting at a comfortable cadence. - your muscles may also be more comfortable at the lower cadence (ATP breakdown)