Crosstraining?

[SARA]

Mud dee. This is perfect. Can I get you to argue my thoughts so eloquently for me more often? I'm nodding and smiling with all your points.

[bruce]

 

I agree with you Bruce but' date='  How many times after a long ride can you feel that you core muscles actually worked, in relation to a specicfic core exercise like pilaties?  A fatigued muscle is harder to stabilize, thus the core work harder. But in cycling your prime movers are in such good shape and take much longer too fatigue. Thats why you must target the core directly.[/quote']

 

Proposing a counter argument:

My core muscles get tired after a long ride because I don't do enough long rides.

 

Core muscles don't work harder because your prime movers are fatigued.  In fact, pilates theory has it the other way around.  Prime movers work harder because your core is fatigued - because the patform against which they are pushing is no longer stable.

 

Sedentary lifestyles have created the situation in which core muscles are not utilised enough chairs provide the support and not the core.  The neural pathways that are used to recruit these muscles have to be retrained so that the brain starts using them again.

 

Cycling a couple of hours a day is not really a sedentary lifestyle.

 

[willpower]

 

So is it a myth that running is good for hill climbing?

 

Running is good for anaerobic fitness, and anaerobic fitness is good for hill climbing. And time-trialing.

 

I think my training over the last two months since I returned to road racing would be of some interest here... a handful of training rides. no gym. 3-4 runs a week. a bike race every weekend.

 

[SARA]

So is it a myth that running is good for hill climbing?

Running is good for anaerobic fitness' date=' and anaerobic fitness is good for hill climbing. And time-trialing.

I think my training over the last two months since I returned to road racing would be of some interest here... a handful of training rides. no gym. 3-4 runs a week. a bike race every weekend.
[/quote']

 

. perfect. nice little eg Will.

[Mudsimus]

Somehow I think we tend to disagree on a small technical point, but agree on the same principal, the importance of a strong core. I quilified as a pilaties instructor while studying so I know the basics. However a muscle can support its own weight when not fatigued, but when fatigued the core must work harder to maintain correct posture. On or of the bike. One of the main reasons for lower back pain on the bike is core strengh or lack thereoff.

[CVANC]

.... And time-trialing.

 

I wish I could run, anything to improve my time-trialing.

[bruce]

Unfortunately you have no way of knowing whether your performances would have been better had you spent that time cycling.  Current Sport Science theory says they would have.  Unfortunately you have no eqivalent athlete to compare against.

[jellytot]

It is good to maintain all your muscles, even if they're not used specifically in cycling.  The reasoning behind muscles being in good shape is for your body to move biomechanically correct, if not your 'strong' muscles' will not be used 'correctly' which in the long run can cause problems.

 So, nothing wrong with cross training.

[willpower]

 

Quite true bruce. During the main part of the season (Jan to March) I will likely follow a very different programme depending on my goals (Giro?) and how much time I have for training and resting.

 

For me running is a great way to build up fitness to a competitive (cycling) level without having to put in very many hours of training.

 

I really struggle to cycle at the intensity that I can run at during

training. So for me a one hour run with intervals will be a tougher

workout than a one hour cycle.

 

[bruce]

 

It is good to maintain all your muscles' date=' even if they're not used specifically in cycling.  The reasoning behind muscles being in good shape is for your body to move biomechanically correct, if not your 'strong' muscles' will not be used 'correctly' which in the long run can cause problems.

 So, nothing wrong with cross training.

[/quote']

 

Seriously, I am not saying there is anything wrong with cross-training per se.  But the goal you are stating is overall body conditioning and well-being, not coming first in a race.

 

It's all about the goals that you choose, and the best way to achieve them.

 

[domenic]

I agree with Bruce, and any time I can fit in a training ride, I do.

However there is an almost daily slot of 15 mins during my lunch break, in which I could strenghthen my core. So, what exercises do I do?

[bruce]

 

I agree with Bruce' date=' and any time I can fit in a training ride, I do.

However there is an almost daily slot of 15 mins during my lunch break, in which I could strenghthen my core. So, what exercises do I do?

[/quote']

 

It get's back to the goals issue.  If you want overall good conditioning and be fit and healthy, then go ahead do core exercises, or swimming, or stepping, or whatever.

 

Be aware that by doing a hard workout on your core, could well leave you fatigued for the next days training ride, which would mean you are possibly compromising your cycling training - if your GOAL is to be the best possible cyclist you can be.

 

[BikeMax]

 

2 c again. I'm no expert' date=' this is personal observation...

So when you are cycling there are a bunch of muscles doing the majority of the work. Then there are a bunch of muscles doing a little bit less work but they are still important. These lets say "2nd order" muscles operate fine over a shorter training period, however if you do a 4/5 hour race as apposed to say the 2 hr ride you have time for everyday, these "2nd order" muscles are the ones that slow you down, they get tired/hurt. Meanwhile the 1st order muscles are still going fine. So by targeting these 2nd order muscles with some form of "cross training" you can strengthen them independently of the "1st order" muscles.

In my pleb opinion.

[/quote']

 

Agreed, but remember the following - those 2nd order muscles, things like your core etc, are becoming fatigued by doing something for 4 - 5 hours.  Now to improve them for that task, your would need to recreate the same fatigue etc and cross-train them for 4 - 5 hours.  They are not in the same fatigued state when you walk into gym fresh from a good nights sleep.

 

If you were to ride for 4 - 5 hours, then those muscles would also improve.

 

 

Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike...

 

The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling.

 

[BikeMax]

 

 In cycling most of your power are indirectly generated in the core. 

 

 

Cycling performance and power output is dictated by CV fitness and not muscle strength.

 

Core strngth may reduce rider fatigue due to prolonged sitting on a bike in an aero position or similar but it will not improve power output.

 

[SARA]

Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike...

The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling.

 

have you read the whole thread?

what about...

 if you've got these big strong cycling muscles you will rely on them to do all the work. The less used ones that could be helping out with the workload get "lazy" in a sense. If you could recruit these lazy little bastards as well how much faster could you go!? You would take some of the pressure off the big guys, faster...longer? perhaps if you considered them they could be put to better use?

It's just something I was thinking about, after chatting to my physio and yoga teacher.

[BikeMax]

 

 

 

Bear in mind that if these "2nd order" muscles needed to be trained to improve cycling then they would get that training while on the bike...

 

The fact that they don't get stimulus while cycling is generally because you are not using them to help your cycling.

 

have you read the whole thread?

what about...

 if you've got these big strong cycling muscles you will rely on them to do all the work. The less used ones that could be helping out with the workload get "lazy" in a sense. If you could recruit these lazy little bastards as well how much faster could you go!? You would take some of the pressure off the big guys' date=' faster...longer? perhaps if you considered them they could be put to better use?

It's just something I was thinking about, after chatting to my physio and yoga teacher.

[/quote']

 

Hi Sara

 

The principle of endurance cycling performance is based on the fact that leg or muscle strength are NEVER the limiting factor. The limiter is CV fitness - studies have shown that elite cyclists simply push harder on the pedals due to their higher CV fitness levels. If you want to improve cycling performance then it is necessary to be able to put out more power for the same cardiac output - the way to achieve this is by training the heart and not legs, core etc.

 

Spreading the load differently as you advocate will not improve the hearts ability to feed the working muscles with 02 and so will not improve performance - your bdoy uses it's muscles very effectively, and as Bruce says - if you want it to use them even better for cycling, then cycle more and then they get better at that discipline.