Guest Big H Posted February 22, 2009 Share Better not change the topic, I can recall when a previous discussion like this was canned because ACSIS was advertising on the Hub. Cannot remember if the still do?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4ph3X Posted February 22, 2009 Share i think the following title is more suitable : riding skills lacking in development cyclist. nothing wrong with that? edit: or: group riding skills lacking in development and transformation cyclist(as the ppa refers to them)4ph3X2009-02-22 10:29:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted February 22, 2009 Share ...cant say that mate!! Then all the PC and race police will be all over it and in no time the facts will be spin doctored from one of racing "ethics" to one of racism... why not say it? it's implicit. call a spade a spade. pickles, i feel for your son, but have to take issue with your way of addressing it here. call it latent, call it inherent; you know i'm not wrong. Do tell Holy, exactly WTF this would achieve? You are flogging a dead horse! Who TF made you keeper of The Queen's English anyway? This is not about ADJECTIVE CHOICE or punctuation marks! This is about *** riding. OK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no.one.knows Posted February 22, 2009 Share Saw this thread happening eventually. 94.7 was my last race in SA before I left. Four crashes in the elite bunch on the first highway, so in other words, in the first 8km's on a four lane highway!! four F&^%ing lanes, plenty of space but it still happens. It happened to be some of these development riders that caused it as well. Also however, SA elite racing is very stop start, attack the s$%t out of everyone for 30m and then jam on breaks. This i feel is really stupid and a real waste of time, but which can only be resolved by the reaction of the main bunch, dont chase him down 3km into a race, he has 90 odd km to go on his own, is he really hoping to get somewhere? But i fear this will never change as there are too many "I do it for myself riders in the elite bunch". yes i agree with a good attacking race, it makes it good to watch but im saying there has to be some calm control amongst the teams and not headless panic at the first sign of a slight surge cause this also causes crashes. As for the development riders, I would not know how to help them get that experience before they ride elites, my only suggestion would be to do a grading system and run two elite batches, the high seeded or graded teams ride top batch and the lower grade teams or lower grade riders, based on seeding, not colour, ride in the seond batch, that leaves after the elites, juniors and maybe with or just after the ladies. what you folks think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted February 22, 2009 Share Holy' date=' do not try and elicit debate for the sake of debate please. The issue here is a group of riders (Acsis club/team - call them what you want, but they stay the Acsis group of riders) causing havoc in the road races. Surely this should and may be addressed by anybody who has a problem with their lack of riding skills / ethics?I've only recently taken up road racing (doing my second road race this coming weekend) and reading stories of groups of people (clubs, teams, whoever) behaving like this, kinda makes me wonder whether it is really worth it to pursue this line of cycling as I hopefully progress through the batches from the back.The races should be safe (as much as possible) for all participants. How long before an Acsis rider is going to get pushed of his/her bike in retaliation? Would that be fair? Remember, they set an example of accepted (not acceptable) behaviour for other riders, and if their behaviour is not acceptable it should be addressed. Please do no split hairs because of characteristics used to identify them(Acis Team/Club) as a group![/quote'] fair enough. but why isn't the topic for discussion headed with the words "Race Ethics Lacking in "Acsis club/team"?Granted.Pickles, you willing to change the title of the thread to keep this on track? Sure! Whatever floats Holy's boat! Not for a split second, after seeing what my kid looked and felt like, nor whilst posting this thread, did I stop to ponder my use of punctuation marks etc etc. BELIEVE ME HOLY, if you knew me you would know that if I printed (for public consumption) everything that I think, I would be in jail (or have a knife in my neck) by now. Stick to the bloody point okay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windbreaker Posted February 22, 2009 Share As for the development riders' date=' I would not know how to help them get that experience before they ride elites, my only suggestion would be to do a grading system and run two elite batches, the high seeded or graded teams ride top batch and the lower grade teams or lower grade riders, based on seeding, not colour, ride in the seond batch, that leaves after the elites, juniors and maybe with or just after the ladies. what you folks think? [/quote']So if the issue is really about racing skills then focus on that in terms of development. Structure it properly as an academy of some sort. This is not just about grouping a bunch of kids along racial lines and sending them out to race (or train). The academy should be open to all with under-privileged kids being eligible for a subsidy. I'm not saying that the current efforts don't have a place but they are not the complete answer. edit: I don't think that I have EVER seen the pick & pay kids with any sort of supervision or guidance on their training rides.Windbreaker2009-02-22 11:12:09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no.one.knows Posted February 22, 2009 Share i must be consued, is that an agreement with what im saying or an add on or...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windbreaker Posted February 22, 2009 Share a response to your comment "As for the development riders, I would not know how to help them get that experience before they ride elites, " and just an observation about what I think is wrong with the current setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasingtrucks Posted February 22, 2009 Share We have the same issue up here in JHB with the UCI Afrique riders, and the other development riders that are on proper teams. Like today, one ended up on his front wheel when he hit the brakes after a bottle fell out of someones cage. I think some basic skills are crucial but how to teach them?? Oh... and taking stupid gaps in the peleton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agteros Posted February 22, 2009 Share Just providing these youngsters with the equipment and without the training smacks of window-dressing, and is not a real effort to develop their bike riding and racing abilities / skills. The current effort will lead to a lot more lost skin for other cyclists. Pickles is justifiably upset about the injuries to his son, and might have taken a calm approach to what some other might do.... Somebody is going to retaliate at some point, and then ... who will be right / wrong then? The sponsors for these riders should relook their approach to 'developing' (quotes as real developing seems not to be happening) as Windbreaker suggests. Surely providing opportunities and development entails more than just thowing money (bikes / kit / entry fees / transport!). GUIDANCE IS NEEDED ABOVE ALL ELSE! Race organisers / CSA should definitely relook at seeding these riders as suggested by no.one.knows. What is blatently obvious about cyclists transgressing the rule (development or not), is that there is no repurcussions to the transgressors - crossing middle line, causing accidents... Surely this should be addressed as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted February 22, 2009 Share Just providing these youngsters with the equipment and without the training smacks of window-dressing' date=' and is not a real effort to develop their bike riding and racing abilities / skills.[/quote'] You couldn't have said this better Agteros. Window-dressing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted February 22, 2009 Share Sure! Whatever floats Holy's boat! Not for a split second' date=' after seeing what my kid looked and felt like, nor whilst posting this thread, did I stop to ponder my use of punctuation marks etc etc. BELIEVE ME HOLY, if you knew me you would know that if I printed (for public consumption) everything that I think, I would be in jail (or have a knife in my neck) by now. Stick to the bloody point okay! [/quote'] Do tell Holy' date=' exactly WTF this would achieve? You are flogging a dead horse! Who TF made you keeper of The Queen's English anyway? This is not about ADJECTIVE CHOICE or punctuation marks! This is about *** riding. OK![/quote'] sorry to split another hair, but my point was about your choice of nouns not adjectives. i understand your anger, and, like yourself, am fiercely protective of my children. you are talking about a racing incident here, yet you go from that to making a judgement about an individual's (lack of a) sense of right and wrong. take the opening stages of any tour de france. they are usually peppered with crashes because of nervy riders. these are the best riders in the world, yet a bad reaction will bring down a large section of the peloton. would you question their ethics and abilities? that said, your initial post has led to some constructive debate, particularly from windbreaker and no.one.knows. i made my point quite a few pages back. i'll leave it at that. my final words: pickles, i hope your son heals up good and fast.holy roller2009-02-22 21:37:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big H Posted February 22, 2009 Share I mentioned it in one of my posts bit would like to re-iterate. Agteros was talking about "window dressing" This will help the advancement and acceptance by Government as "not just another elitist whitey sport" much better is that these young kids must also be given some sort of lifeskills development. It helps squat if he reaches the highest echelons of the sport and he still behaves like a skollie or a ducktail. It is unfair to that young person who does not have the social development to be subjected to the rigours and pressures of competing at the highest level. The chances that he will be successfull is almost zero. The sponsors who instigates his training and induction into the world of cycling has a social responsibilty to do that as well and not just use him as their advertisment board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbee Posted February 22, 2009 Share Does anyone know how to get hold of the acsis development manager ? I need to get hold of someone who can help out the youngsters who ride along the R44 between Stellies and Somerset West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted February 23, 2009 Share I think one of the biggest problems this year is that the juniors have been made to race with the elite riders. A lot of the younger junior's are out of their depth and are struggling to keep with the pace of the elite riders, leading to mistakes and wild attempts to stay in the group. It is also important to distinguish between the junior Acsis team and the elites. The elite riders have been coached, trained and skilled at the Sports Science Institute for the last 14 months and it shows. They attend a weekly briefing, training and monitoring session. They are doing field training sessions and laboratory training. In fact, no Acsis ELITE rider has been involved in a single crash since the Giro last year. There were four big crashes at the Construction Du Cap 99er and not one involved an Acsis rider, yet I don't see a single post about any of those crashes. I agree that the juniors are very erratic and need to be skilled but some of these guys are only 16 and have been riding for months, not years. They should not be riding with the elites. Next time one of the riders causes a crash, take down his number, complain about the specific rider to the race organisers and to the specific team manager (different for elites and juniors). In essence, stop painting everyone with the same brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat Posted February 23, 2009 Share I think that some of the guys here are not only complaining about the youngster's lack of skill, but also their attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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