Pathetic bridge needs removal at Tokai

[Hog_]

Hmmmm, seems like the majority of people replying are in favour of the bridge. Not really surprising, considering the average mtbr in SA.

 

My take on this: Leave the bridge. BUT the bridge should not take away the lines used by experienced riders. It should just act as a chicken run. Maybe you can get a new line through there that doesn't rely on the bridge?

 

That way everyone is happy, and you can choose if you'd like to take the tough or easy route. Just like we had on the spruit with the see-saw!

 

 

 

[Hog_]

 

FYI' date=' I'll whip your ass ANY DAY technically (go ahead, challenge me)[/quote']

 

WHOOOOHOOOOO!

 

Handbags at dawn, Martin VS Busty! Who's taking video? Maybe the guys from Treadmag can facilitate the competition?

 

 

 

[JohnnyReggae]

I have to agree with BTS here. While I really appreciate the maintenance work being done in Tokai Forest, some sections are being "dumbed down" to cater for the weekend warrior. The technical difficulty of some sections is now gone just to make it easier to ride.

 

A specific point in case is the small section on downhill 4 where the trail splits, right for a easy loop around, and left for a downhill section with a few drops. The left section with the drops now has a "northshore" piece added. While it's great to ride along that piece and have a small drop at the end, the initial drops (next to and below the huge rock on the left) are now gone. I've spent a fair amount of time working out the lines and going for the drops and was so happy the first time I nailed it. Now that I can do the drops I always look forward to getting there and doing them..... they are now gone.

 

Can't people spend some time working on their skills, rather than make it easier to ride ? What really is the point of making it easier to ride ? If the trail changes due to weather, change how you ride it.... Isn't that the point ? Working on your skills is the only way to make you a better rider, not making the trail easier so you can ride it

 

[Bos]

Like I said you're not the only one on the mountain. It's the first bit of single track from the parking lot and therefore most likely to be ridden by beginners.

 

I could say rather go ride the North Shore section' date=' but a better idea is for you to stop complaining and go and help with the work parties in building better trails.

 

Would you like the contact details?

[/quote']

 

Exactly.

 

Oh and BTS (easier to type), did you ever consider that lots of people ride this singletrack <em>the other way</em> (ie coming down)? The bermed bridge now makes it possible to ride, whereas I've always needed to portage it before.

Hey MH (easier to type). Yes, I DID in fact consider that people ride the trail the other way. It's easy to ride the river section from both ways. It was always possible to ride it too. So yes, I did consider this. Thanks for checking in though.

 

I would love to stand and watch you try it and you not making it and ME laughing at You and then start vomitting everywere..

 

Bro, Im just pulling your leg, I have to admit that I didnt make that section the first  time last weekend (going down to the bottom direction) It was a bit easyer to ride before the bridge because now you just slam straight into the rooty bits where before one could get momentum through there.

 

But hey, probably 5% of the people comming through there everyday can ride that, And If 95% like the bridge Or dont really mind, then what youre MINORITY, unfortunately.

We are flogging a dead animal here....

[Cheryl J]

 

Hi Cheryl, who provided you with this info regarding the erosion?

Um what?info? You?can't miss?the?erosion / widening trail down to the concrete bridge unless you've been sleeping for?the?last few?years?everytime you ride?up?there.....??its got easier?to ride?up?as?the?slope has?eroded back,?not?to mention?as?other?options have been created, widening turning?circle?on?top,?more exposed tree routes?a bit?higher etc etc

 

Unfortunately?as far?as I?know there?aren't?any plans?to sort?it?out?currently.???

[bustthesickness]

 

Exactly. And to make it clear to parabola and Mark Hatting' date=' guys, JUST COS YOU CANT RIDE IT, DOESNT MEAN IT'S OK TO MAKE IT EASIER.

Seriously, make the effort to learn to ride it. Beef up the technical skills. The river section is EASY to cross from both sides. It's called LINE, SPEED and MOMENTUM. The bridge doesnt help you to become a better rider. It actually makes you worse off.

[/quote']

 

So now you're a technical coach? AND you're assuming that everyone cruises around on new-school 5" bikes with short stems made for all-mountain drops and hammering?

 

FYI, I'll whip your ass ANY DAY technically (go ahead, challenge me), but it just so happens that not everyone (meaning, most people who pay to ride in Tokai and who help fund development of our trails) is out to practice DH and dirt jumping skills. Some of us even run full-on XC setups (*gasp*, I know!)

 

Build some gnarly stuff on your own property if it bothers you so much.

 

HAHAHA, classic! MH (easier to type), just now you mentioned that you couldnt ride out of the river section and now your CHALLENGING me to a tech-off!!! he he. I wont be challenging you though because I couldnt care less what you can and cant ride. What I do know is that if a section on a trail challenges me, I try until I get it. I dont go and modify the trail to make it easier.

 

And yip, lots of us do have secret nasty stuff built in the hills here. Maybe even me. I wont be telling you where though as I'm sure you and your buds will turn my camel humps into a dromedary.

 

[Dirt*girl™]

I have to agree with BTS here. While I really appreciate the maintenance work being done in Tokai Forest' date=' some sections are being "dumbed down" to cater for the weekend warrior. The technical difficulty of some sections is now gone just to make it easier to ride.

A specific point in case is the small section on downhill 4 where the trail splits, right for a easy loop around, and left for a downhill section with a few drops. The left section with the drops now has a "northshore" piece added. While it's great to ride along that piece and have a small drop at the end, the initial drops (next to and below the huge rock on the left) are now gone. I've spent a fair amount of time working out the lines and going for the drops and was so happy the first time I nailed it. Now that I can do the drops I always look forward to getting there and doing them..... they are now gone.

Can't people spend some time working on their skills, rather than make it easier to ride ? What really is the point of making it easier to ride ? If the trail changes due to weather, change how you ride it.... Isn't that the point ? Working on your skills is the only way to make you a better rider, not making the trail easier so you can ride it
[/quote']

 

 

That's what I said! Fit in with the sport...don't make the sport fit in with you! If you can't do it..learn how to! It's not that difficult!

[splat]

Hi Cheryl' date=' who provided you with this info regarding the erosion?
[/quote']

 

Sometimes you are the Sickness.

[JohnnyReggae]

 

 

AND you're assuming that everyone cruises around on new-school 5" bikes with short stems made for all-mountain drops and hammering?

 

FYI' date=' I'll whip your ass ANY DAY technically (go ahead, challenge me), but it just so happens that not everyone (meaning, most people who pay to ride in Tokai and who help fund development of our trails) is out to practice DH and dirt jumping skills. Some of us even run full-on XC setups (*gasp*, I know!)

[/quote']

I ride the trails on a Mountain Unicycle, and I have an issue with the trails being made easier to ride. I want to push myself to learn to ride everything, and am ecstatic when I land something I've been trying for a while.... only to have it removed or made easier ??? The point for me riding is to improve my skills so that I can attempt more difficult and technical sections. If I cannot do a section I walk it, until I can do it.

 

I pay to ride like everyone else (even though I feel it should only be half-price seeing as I only have 1 wheel , but that is beside the point) and don't see why my experience should be dulled because other people are to "lazy" to improve their skills.

 

 

Build some gnarly stuff on your own property if it bothers you so much.

If I wanted a technical easy ride I would go ride on the road.... I don't so I go ride in the forest. If you want an easy ride, go ride on the road.

 

[bustthesickness]

 

Hmmmm' date=' seems like the majority of people replying are in favour of the bridge. Not really surprising, considering the average mtbr in SA.

 

My take on this: Leave the bridge. BUT the bridge should not take away the lines used by experienced riders. It should just act as a chicken run. Maybe you can get a new line through there that doesn't rely on the bridge?

 

That way everyone is happy, and you can choose if you'd like to take the tough or easy route. Just like we had on the spruit with the see-saw!

 

 

[/quote']

Hi Hog, unfortunately the new bridge takes up the whole area and the old line is not there anymore. The bridge is wide as well. It's pretty pathetic actually and really messes up a great river crossing.

 

[bustthesickness]

 

 

Hi Cheryl' date=' who provided you with this info regarding the erosion?

[/quote']

Um what info? You can't miss the erosion / widening trail down to the concrete bridge unless you've been sleeping for the last few years everytime you ride up there.....  its got easier to ride up as the slope has eroded back, not to mention as other options have been created, widening turning circle on top, more exposed tree routes a bit higher etc etc

 

Unfortunately as far as I know there aren't any plans to sort it out currently.   

 

Hi Cheryl, I'm not talking about the concrete bridge section. We are talking about the RIVER CROSSING. When last were you at Tokai?

 

[Hog_]

 

Hi Hog' date=' unfortunately the new bridge takes up the whole area and the old line is not there anymore. The bridge is wide as well. It's pretty pathetic actually and really messes up a great river crossing.

[/quote']

 

Okay that's sad then. It's great that the trail builders are trying to make the trails more accessible for the beginner/intermediate riders, but it shouldn't be done at other's expense.

 

 

 

 

 

[bustthesickness]

 

A specific point in case is the small section on downhill 4 where the trail splits' date=' right for a easy loop around, and left for a downhill section with a few drops. The left section with the drops now has a "northshore" piece added. While it's great to ride along that piece and have a small drop at the end, the initial drops (next to and below the huge rock on the left) are now gone. I've spent a fair amount of time working out the lines and going for the drops and was so happy the first time I nailed it. Now that I can do the drops I always look forward to getting there and doing them..... they are now gone.[/quote']

I know, that new section bites. While it IS fun to do the tiny drop off, I'd also spent some time out on that section tweaking my lines to blast through there. I always looked forward to nailing this part of the trail. Now I don't.

 

Very sad when we stop pushing the limits and set the bar at the bottom. oh well

 

[Cheryl J]

 

Hi Cheryl, who provided you with this info regarding the erosion?

Um what?info? ?

 

Hi Cheryl, I'm not talking about the concrete bridge section. We are talking about the RIVER CROSSING. When last were you at Tokai?

 

Ahh - you mean the?erosion at?the river crossing..... (note I did?ask which lot of erosion you were asking about....!). ?Well there's been quite a bit?of?that too over?the?last number?of years.??On both sides?of the bank.... ?Also go through?that spot?after a bunch?of guys have?rideen through (prior bridge) and you?could?see?the silt?in?the water. (not?that walking through?there?as some do didn't also cause damage........)

 

Anyway - point is, very high volumes of riders can have?a big?environmental?impact, which?can?require 'dumbing?down' of trails to?prevent environmental?impacts......

 

anyway - i want to see that bridge in winter, once its acquired a nice moss coating........

?

 

[MintSauce]

With bridges and ladders it's such a fine line for me personally. I

also lean to the more technical side of riding and love riding ladders

and skinnies.

 

 

 

At the same time I like keeping trails as natural as possible.

 

Originally bridges and ladders were built as means of protecting the

natural environment in wet areas or for crossing genuinely unrideable

areas.

 

Thus if they serve a genuine, environmental purpose or make a obstacle(rut, gorge, rock formation) that was totally unbreachable rideable in order to link up a trail, then I'm all for

it.

 

 

While I understand that some form of bridge might have been necessary

to protect the stream in this particular instance, why build such a behemoth...? A wider version

of the railway sleepers that preceded the current bridge would've

served the same purpose without completely disrupting the line. It's simply too much bridge for this particular situation.

 

As for errosion, the only part that got seriously eroded ie the entrance/exit on the gate side is still in the same eroded state and is still subjected to the exact same forces as before ie riders trying to ride up/down it.

 

The funny thing is that we're talking of a shallow(5-10cm deep) stream that is in some areas not even half a meter wide. Walking it required stepping off your bike, stepping accross the stream with a single step and pushing your bike up a 2m long slope.

 

 

Several areas in Tokai have been dumbed down in the last few months and I must say I find this very disheartening.

 

Especially that section JR refers to. How often do you find a technical section including several drops with numerous lines to choose from...? Now there's just one single non-technical line down and it involves a straightforward bridge.

 

And as Johnny mentioned, there was an easy line around this drop-off section. Why then dumb down the technical line when there is already an option for the beginners...?

 

 

 

 

[bustthesickness]

 

 

Hi Cheryl' date=' who provided you with this info regarding the erosion?

[/quote']

Um what info?  

 

Hi Cheryl, I'm not talking about the concrete bridge section. We are talking about the RIVER CROSSING. When last were you at Tokai?

 

Ahh - you mean the erosion at the river crossing..... (note I did ask which lot of erosion you were asking about....!).  Well there's been quite a bit of that too over the last number of years.  On both sides of the bank....  Also go through that spot after a bunch of guys have rideen through (prior bridge) and you could see the silt in the water. (not that walking through there as some do didn't also cause damage........)

 

Anyway - point is, very high volumes of riders can have a big environmental impact, which can require 'dumbing down' of trails to prevent environmental impacts......

 

anyway - i want to see that bridge in winter, once its acquired a nice moss coating........

 

 

The irony of your comment is of course that the Tokai trails are in a PINE PLANTATION!!!! Kind of defeats the point in being all environmentally friendly and all eh?! Secondly, you speak as if you have some insider knowledge from the trail builders as to why this bridge was constructed. I'm guessing here, but I very much doubt it was erosion that caused this bridge to be built.

 

Anyways, you cant carry on about environmental impacts regarding this section. The very nature of the section is low impact. First off, there are root systems on either side of the crossing, with rocky sections before these sections. I'd agree with you if it were a steep chute with a corner at the bottom and no choke before the turn, but in the case of this bridge, it's just weenies not wanting to get wet.