Morewood XC Bike

[Bos]

Will the DW and other link setups provide less chaingrowth than a single pivot? Does that mean less power?

There is nothing like a good rocky / technical descent but you dont want to lose power on a technical climb!

 

Singlepivots dont have chaingrowth, they only have stiffening of the suspension, which some might call bad because its not so actuve onder power, and some might call it good as it doesnt bob so much. (then theres also lockout for smooth roads.

 

chaingrowth happens for one on a BLur VPP design because the bottom link rotates clockwise, IOW its like your arm when it is bent, so when it opens up the point between your shoulder and wrist becomes longer.. so what that does is it "Yanks" on your chain slightly as the  force of the suspension working under your weight is much more than your legs trying to turn the peddle. However, over full travel my blurs growth is something like 18mm or something, the only time I ever experiance it it when Im climbing seated in granny ring, and I go over one of those speedbumps on a smooth road like up to the blockhouse here on tablemountain as my suspension compress down the other side, one does experiance a slight kick.. Have to say, It that is called a Drawback, then hell, I take it annyday, its hardly noticable and even when it happens, Its really nothing..like, oh, that just happened.. and carry on going

 

Its so difficult to try and explain these things.. but the differences are really so small, someone made a very valid comment the other day.. Oh It was the Importer of Commencal at the Urban assult..He said there really are so few "bad bikes" around these days..I think its very true..

[bigblade44]

 

Will the DW and other link setups provide less chaingrowth than a single pivot? Does that mean less power?

 

There is nothing like a good rocky / technical descent but you dont want to lose power on a technical climb!

 

Singlepivots dont have chaingrowth' date=' they only have stiffening of the suspension, which some might call bad because its not so actuve onder power, and some might call it good as it doesnt bob so much. (then theres also lockout for smooth roads.

 

chaingrowth happens for one on a BLur VPP design because the bottom link rotates clockwise, IOW its like your arm when it is bent, so when it opens up the point between your shoulder and wrist becomes longer.. so what that does is it "Yanks" on your chain slightly as the  force of the suspension working under your weight is much more than your legs trying to turn the peddle. However, over full travel my blurs growth is something like 18mm or something, the only time I ever experiance it it when Im climbing seated in granny ring, and I go over one of those speedbumps on a smooth road like up to the blockhouse here on tablemountain as my suspension compress down the other side, one does experiance a slight kick.. Have to say, It that is called a Drawback, then hell, I take it annyday, its hardly noticable and even when it happens, Its really nothing..like, oh, that just happened.. and carry on going

 

Its so difficult to try and explain these things.. but the differences are really so small, someone made a very valid comment the other day.. Oh It was the Importer of Commencal at the Urban assult..He said there really are so few "bad bikes" around these days..I think its very true..

[/quote']

 

Thanks Bos, I have learned so much today and have descent amo to take back to my mates on their Ellsworths (which is also one of the great bikes but i think the MZ has more soul).

 

 

 

[GoLefty!!]

Hi Guys & Girls

I am very keen on the new Zula but friends have warned me that the single pivit design is old technology and that the 4 bar is the way to go i.e. Ellswoth.

Do anyone have an opinion on this? I dont know the difference and dont have the opportunity to ride the Zula before I buy. I currently have an 07 Spec Epic SW and they say that I currently ride a better bike than the Zula?

I will keep the Spec but dont want to buy something that I wouldnt use?

BigBlade' date='

I'm happy to see that you have sought out opinions other than your "friends".

Some of what BOS has posted I fully agree with. A single pivot seems old school and then there is the Specialized propagated myth that it is inferior to their horst link design. Well they would say that won't they.

From my name you can see that I don't ride a Morewood (yet),I ride a Cannondale Scalpel which is a sort of SinglePivot. It's a leaf spring design.

Now to the crux of the matter. Should you consider a Morewood Zula.
Ans: YES you should.

I have had a privileged opportunity to ride the demo Zula and compare it directly against my Scalpel, a VPP BMC, an Ellsworth Truth and a Specialized Epic 2008 model.

Lets get your 2007 Specialized out of the way first.
I'll be honest, I do not like the way that bike rides. It's harsh and I find the rear suspension gets"confused". It's not the Horst link,just the overall execution of the design that tells me Specialized is all hype, no substance.
Horst link bikes are marketed as the holy grail. No suspension bobbing, reactive to small bumps, swallows big bumps etc.None of this is any more true or false than for any other well design suspension, whether VPP, DW or Mono Pivot.

What BOS says about the VPP only really holes true for a specific set of conditions that include correct suspension setup for the riders weight, atmospheric temperature and weight placement over the bike.

every rider is different and therefore the way they move their body over the bike on a descent or climb or even rutted road is very personal and therefore suspension set up and its reaction to changes is very important to overall ride quality,especially if you spend long days in the saddle.

what I find is that the linkage designs; DW, VPP and HorstLink arevery sensitive to suspension set up vs rider weight. Because the Instant centre that the makersclaim is dynamic often the distance between the riders centre of gravity and the suspensions instant centre is varying by a large amount, affecting the quality of the ride. It could feel harsh one minute then plush and balanced the next. Hence I do not like linkage bikes.



I

Morewood Zula,

nuff said


[/quote']

 

I am Really really tired of long threads that becomes a debate based on personal preferance. So Im just going to hilight this, and not try contradict what I just said. I just want it open to the reader to make his own desision.

 

Lefty: you are making some assumptions here that dont hold water on which you base your argument that VPP, DW, 4 Bar and horst links are all nonsense.

Because you say BLUE ABOVE

 

Lefty I do want to make the point that every single bicycle out there "only works depending if the bike is set up correctly or not".

 

I also want to make the point that the Centre of gravity argument is also a bit of Dramatization here.. what mabe 2cm in change of Centre of gravity is now goung to make these systems obsolete? ant full travel is reached when you are plowing through a rock garden while your "centre of gravity" is lower due to travel of bike anyway, who notices 2-3 cm when youre plowing through rough stuff and the bike is bouncing around underneath you?

You are also making assumptions about a bike that is hardly avalable to the South african public, It has not proven itself yet and theres hardly any reviews. Going by the normal excelence as far as Morewoods Quality of build & workmanship goes, Im sure it Is great.

 

Having said all of that. I dont think singlepivot is a bad choice. It does what most expects of a FS. and If you dont consider yourself to technical or good a rider then these differences will hardly be noticable.

 

As your statement about a true Marethon priveteer bike and Proudly south african. I think you are on the money there.

 

 

 

Horst Link VPP, DW link are all just marketing gimicks to make a bike different to something else.

 

the only they have in common is sensitivity to correct sag. That is a fact, not a personal preference.

 

For a VPP you have to set the sag so the suspension settles into the S-bend in order to get correct feel and performance.

 

DW link is even more sensitive, except on a Pivot where they've altered the upper linkage to reduce that sensitivity. They are all more sensitive than a mono pivot. FACT.

 

I won;t apologise for not sharing your views on linkage designs. I just don't buy into marketing hype.

 

But thanks for showing how BS my opinion is. I guess I will have to believe every catalogue that crosses my desk in future.

[JasonW]

Go Lefty, out of interest, why would you prefer the Morewood to the Scalpel. Does the lack of a proper lower pivot point on the Scalpel constitute a disadvantage? I ask because no other manufacturer has gone the flexable chain stay route, and Cannondale do not use this on their marathon spec bikes such as the Ruch and Rize.

[AndreZA]

I ask because no other manufacturer has gone the flexable chain stay route

 

 

 

Orbea also does it.

 

 

 

http://www.pedalator.com/VTT/inventaire/cadres/ORBEA_Oiz-UFO_2006.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/orbea_close_hi.jpg

[JasonW]

Thanks Mampara, haven't seen one of these before.

I guess the qeustion I'm asking is whether the flex of the stay behaves in the same way to the rotation of the bottom pivot.

[Bos]

Hi Guys & Girls

I am very keen on the new Zula but friends have warned me that the single pivit design is old technology and that the 4 bar is the way to go i.e. Ellswoth.

 

I am Really really tired of long threads that becomes a debate based on personal preferance. So Im just going to hilight this' date=' and not try contradict what I just said. I just want it open to the reader to make his own desision.

 

Lefty: you are making some assumptions here that dont hold water on which you base your argument that VPP, DW, 4 Bar and horst links are all nonsense.

Because you say BLUE ABOVE

 

Lefty I do want to make the point that every single bicycle out there "only works depending if the bike is set up correctly or not".

 

I also want to make the point that the Centre of gravity argument is also a bit of Dramatization here.. what mabe 2cm in change of Centre of gravity is now goung to make these systems obsolete? ant full travel is reached when you are plowing through a rock garden while your "centre of gravity" is lower due to travel of bike anyway, who notices 2-3 cm when youre plowing through rough stuff and the bike is bouncing around underneath you?

You are also making assumptions about a bike that is hardly avalable to the South african public, It has not proven itself yet and theres hardly any reviews. Going by the normal excelence as far as Morewoods Quality of build & workmanship goes, Im sure it Is great.

 

Having said all of that. I dont think singlepivot is a bad choice. It does what most expects of a FS. and If you dont consider yourself to technical or good a rider then these differences will hardly be noticable.

 

As your statement about a true Marethon priveteer bike and Proudly south african. I think you are on the money there.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Horst Link VPP, DW link are all just marketing gimicks to make a bike different to something else.

 

the only they have in common is sensitivity to correct sag. That is a fact, not a personal preference.

 

For a VPP you have to set the sag so the suspension settles into the S-bend in order to get correct feel and performance.

 

DW link is even more sensitive, except on a Pivot where they've altered the upper linkage to reduce that sensitivity. They are all more sensitive than a mono pivot. FACT.

 

I won;t apologise for not sharing your views on linkage designs. I just don't buy into marketing hype.

 

But thanks for showing how BS my opinion is. I guess I will have to believe every catalogue that crosses my desk in future.

 

Lefty, I was'nt Insulting you, I just think that you are rating a design crap because its sensitive..whats the problem with a sensitive air setting? If im going to want to fine tune it, I need to be able to make sensitive adjustments. There are charts so you can match air pressure to your weight. dadaah..

 

You dont have to appologise, you didnt offend any of us. Just admit that your views on linkage bikes is a Personal thing, just like I dont like Mercs.. It dont make tham crap.

 

We are talking bikes take it easy.

[jayz]

SORRY GUYS WHAt a load of crap!!!!! YOU TELL ME SPECIALIZED suspension is over rated. WHO gave you the breifcase to hold mate! THE answer simply lies in the WORLD XC champs. SPECIALIZED IS THE TOP full suspension period. 3rd WC after 2 hard tails. SPECIALIZED FULL SUSPENSION no 1 in world under 23 world cup. C sauser on full suspension was world champion. DIRTY HARRY marathon mtb race. SPECIALIZED full suspension no.1. next in line is MERIDA 96 full suspension no 4 in world xc. WHERE is all these other makes top riders and their FULL SUSPENSIONS. IF SPECIALIZED HAD CRAP FULL SUSPENSION THE BIKE WOULD NOT BE GIVING EVERY OTHER FULL SUSPENSION CARROTTS!!!!!!!. IF YOU WANT TO UPGRADE CHOOSE 2010 S WORKS. THEN YOU MIGHT GET SOMEwhere.

 

NUFF SAID#######    

[Matchstix]

 

SORRY GUYS WHAt a load of crap!!!!! YOU TELL ME SPECIALIZED suspension is over rated. WHO gave you the breifcase to hold mate! THE answer simply lies in the WORLD XC champs. SPECIALIZED IS THE TOP full suspension period. 3rd WC after 2 hard tails. SPECIALIZED FULL SUSPENSION no 1 in world under 23 world cup. C sauser on full suspension was world champion. DIRTY HARRY marathon mtb race. SPECIALIZED full suspension no.1. next in line is MERIDA 96 full suspension no 4 in world xc. WHERE is all these other makes top riders and their FULL SUSPENSIONS. IF SPECIALIZED HAD CRAP FULL SUSPENSION THE BIKE WOULD NOT BE GIVING EVERY OTHER FULL SUSPENSION CARROTTS!!!!!!!. IF YOU WANT TO UPGRADE CHOOSE 2010 S WORKS. THEN YOU MIGHT GET SOMEwhere.

 

NUFF SAID#######    

 

Jayz if you put a superior engin into a good platform it will perform well.

Although I am not a lance fan it truely is not about the bike.

Yes the athletes on the top do ride specialised. Out of choice or money we will never know.

then the design is inferior inmy eyes since you need the brain for the suspension to worrk properly( which is in a certain way an excellent and efficiant idea) but doesn't mean the linkage desighn is the best.

The an ther thing is the word class athletes race on 9kg full sus bike costing R90k or more not in the average riders pocket.

M zula rules for what you get.

As to specilaized. .  oreon the older models ask mechanics who have worked on the desighns. . they are/were a pain in ass.

 

[Brighter-Lights]

 

 

 

I rode one of these for a few months. Feels like it's got endless travel and very efficient. Not super light, but I can recommend it. Fast and fun.

[MintSauce]

 

SORRY GUYS WHAt a load of crap!!!!! YOU TELL ME SPECIALIZED suspension is over rated. WHO gave you the breifcase to hold mate! THE answer simply lies in the WORLD XC champs. SPECIALIZED IS THE TOP full suspension period. 3rd WC after 2 hard tails. SPECIALIZED FULL SUSPENSION no 1 in world under 23 world cup. C sauser on full suspension was world champion. DIRTY HARRY marathon mtb race. SPECIALIZED full suspension no.1. next in line is MERIDA 96 full suspension no 4 in world xc. WHERE is all these other makes top riders and their FULL SUSPENSIONS. IF SPECIALIZED HAD CRAP FULL SUSPENSION THE BIKE WOULD NOT BE GIVING EVERY OTHER FULL SUSPENSION CARROTTS!!!!!!!. IF YOU WANT TO UPGRADE CHOOSE 2010 S WORKS. THEN YOU MIGHT GET SOMEwhere.

 

NUFF SAID#######    

 

 

And here, ladies and gentleman, is a prime example of every marketing execs wet dream inducing customer.

 

Put Stander, Sauser, Absalon, Hermida et al on ANY full suspension bike and their results will likely be the same. As mentioned earlier....there really are hardly any bad bikes these days, especially in the upper segment of the market.

 

The fact is that Specialized is prepared to fork out the most cash to have some of the best pros on their bikes. THAT is what gives the S-Works it's victories.

 

It's all marketing.

 

 

 

ps. I think your coffee is cold

 

 

 

 

[bigblade44]

 

I ask because no other manufacturer has gone the flexable chain stay route

 

 

 

Orbea also does it.

 

 

 

http://www.pedalator.com/VTT/inventaire/cadres/ORBEA_Oiz-UFO_2006.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/orbea_close_hi.jpg

 

Bianchi also had the flex chainstay, dont know if they still use it

 

[jayz]

TNXS thought my coffee tasted funny. IM having a wet dream know in fact. YOU seem to have a large breif case there. TO the first guy. the prices are high but I think it has to do with the agents etc as the s works f/s frame is the equivalent to R25000 IN THE US and R50 000 here. COMPARED to other bikes it is marked at a premium in SA but say comparitively in other markets its on a par.

 

SECONDLY THERE is a certain amount of truth to the engine quote. BUT!!! IF the linkage system with brain is poor and over hyped as he said,every one of the top SPECIALIZED riders would have been found out by now. (OR ARE THEY SO GOOD THEY CAN USE A CRAP BIKE AND STILL BEAT PEOPLE)

 

LASTLY the chap talks about price the same suspension and linkage is on the cheaper bikes namely EPIC COMP and expert between 28 and 35g. there is probably about a 5g diff between the bikes you talk about and the specialized.NOT R95000 as you talk about. THE BOTTOM LINE ( THE QUaLITY RIDER HAS TO MATCH A QUALITY BIKE OR THE RIDER WHO ONLY HAS ONE WILL ALWAYS LOOSE TO THE ONE WHO HAS BOTH.

 

BELIEVE THE HYPE BELIEVE THE HYPE!!!!! SORRY COFFEES COLD.

[dirtrider]

All makes sense that is why the top SA MTB team for the last few years all on Raleigh's !!!

[NinjaManiak]

SORRY GUYS WHAt a load of crap!!!!! YOU TELL ME SPECIALIZED suspension is over rated. WHO gave you the breifcase to hold mate! THE answer simply lies in the WORLD XC champs. SPECIALIZED IS THE TOP full suspension period. 3rd WC after 2 hard tails. SPECIALIZED FULL SUSPENSION no 1 in world under 23 world cup. C sauser on full suspension was world champion. DIRTY HARRY marathon mtb race. SPECIALIZED full suspension no.1. next in line is MERIDA 96 full suspension no 4 in world xc. WHERE is all these other makes top riders and their FULL SUSPENSIONS. IF SPECIALIZED HAD CRAP FULL SUSPENSION THE BIKE WOULD NOT BE GIVING EVERY OTHER FULL SUSPENSION CARROTTS!!!!!!!. IF YOU WANT TO UPGRADE CHOOSE 2010 S WORKS. THEN YOU MIGHT GET SOMEwhere.
NUFF SAID#######    

 

You forgot a few. Using the same logic, Specialized also make the 382'nd best bike in the Western Cape ( Lourensford 2009 )

[jayz]

KUASE THEY NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO COMPETE OVER SEAS.