Chain and Cassette Queries

[Fleming]

Hi Guys.

 

 

 

Sorry if this has been asked before. I did a search and came up with nothing.

 

 

 

My chain and cassette are shot and need replacing.

 

 

 

What I want to know is whats the difference between a LX, XT and XTR chain, besides price? Is it worth spending the extra money on a XTR one? Will it last longer?

 

 

 

Same goes for the cassette? I can see how the more expensive ones will be lighter as they have a aluminium frame and less steel but is there any performance benefit?

 

 

 

What about the SRAM stuff? Currently I have all Shimano LX parts on my bike. Is it worth looking at SRAM chains and cassettes?

[singletrackmind]

Ok this is what iv heard from a dude who works at cycle lab.

 

 

 

An Xt cassete and a sram chain work best together.

[rock]

is that the best place to seek advice?

 

I'd say avoid XTR as its way expensive.....new cheaper chains and cassettes will always work better than worn expensive stuff.....

 

I did however notice a difference whn I went from a LX level chain to the XT........casettes just get lighter as you spend more, can't see how they will affect shifting.......

 

he's right about the xt cassette - great value/weight etc.

[Johan Bornman]

Cut cut ut cut cut cut

 

I did however notice a difference whn I went from a LX level chain to the XT........casettes just get lighter as you spend more' date=' can't see how they will affect shifting.......

 

Cut cut cut

 

 

[/quote']

 

 

You noticed a difference? How?

[100Tours]

 

 

Based on no science at all except for my own riding, here's my 2c worth:

 

Have used XT and SRAM clusters over the years. There was no difference in shifting performance, both were very nice and lasted a long time.  I like the ones with the aluminium carrier because you don't risk damaging your freewheel hub (I have observed that the chainrings on the LX-style clusters protrude on the inside, and may bite into/scar lightweight aluminium freewheel bodies).

 

The XTR clusters do feature a number of titanium chainrings (I think). I've always considered them too expensive and never tried them.

 

Different story on chains however. I find the SRAM chains perform better - don't know why, for me they just do. I have broken shimano chains, but not yet broken an SRAM chain (and I did use the correct shimano pins).

 

I prefer the SRAM cross riveted chain (which has a 250kg rated breaking strain as opposed to Shimano and other SRAM chains with 200kg breaking strain), but the normal SRAM also does a great job.

 

I have used perhaps 10 or 12 chains whether SRAM or Shimano over the last 5 years.

 

GotThatInCarbon2009-05-03 10:07:49

[intern]

On the chains, go for an HG93 (Ultegra/XT) and stick with an LX cassette. LX cass is cheap and lasts forever.

Never mind JB's typically snide question, I'll tell you how you will notice a difference - the HG53 and HG73 chains don't last nearly as long as the HG93 one does. They are also 'softer', try bending the chain against the way it usually runs over the cassette and you'll see...

[intern]

And why would that matter, I hear JB asking himself...well, if you're a serious MTBer, your chain will get twisted and shucked about the place and used in ways probably not entirely consistent with how it was designed to work. Stronger = better.

[Wyatt Earp]

Never mind JB's typically snide question' date='

 

[/quote']

 

I am glad you noticed this, and before I get attacked again, yup it swings both ways.

 

What grates me though are the constant attempts to try and stand on some sort of platform and giving the impression of having some superior knowledge.

 

Daar is baie mense wat baie dinge weet.

[Johan Bornman]

You should have treated my question as an innocent one until one step later. Look before you leap.

 

The two chains that you mention, Intern, are made of the same steel. If you've noticed that the one doesn't last as long as the other, you may have some data? Lets see. Perhaps you have an explanation for the observed anomaly in chain life?

 

I don't understand how one can be softer in flexion, unless it is one of those skeleton chains with punch-outs in the sideplates.

 

You and Anton should go for a beer one day and swap favourite jibes about me, maybe work out a concerted strategy?

 

 

[Wyatt Earp]

How about you and I go for a beer one day JB.

 

Let's share knowledge, you know me, so it shouldn't be too difficult to sit in my presence.

 

 

[Pom1]

I have used 2 XTR cassettes and broke a few teeth of one cog, since that incident (Monster 2007) I have used XT cassettes and never had a problem (I average about 200km a week off road)

The XTR chain does not rust (great) I lube my chains after every ride (Squirt) I use the SRAM or the XT/Ultegra (HG93) with a SRAM powerlink, todate I have not broken a chain (But I'm only 73kg), perhaps the bigger MTB'ers would like to comment...

[Johan Bornman]

Hi Guys.

Sorry if this has been asked before. I did a search and came up with nothing.

My chain and cassette are shot and need replacing.

What I want to know is whats the difference between a LX' date=' XT and XTR chain, besides price? Is it worth spending the extra money on a XTR one? Will it last longer?

Same goes for the cassette? I can see how the more expensive ones will be lighter as they have a aluminium frame and less steel but is there any performance benefit?

What about the SRAM stuff? Currently I have all Shimano LX parts on my bike. Is it worth looking at SRAM chains and cassettes?[/quote']

 

Dear Fleming

 

I suggest you hold onto your money for a little while longer. There is no way to say that a cassette is past its useful life until you've fitted a new chain to it and that chain skips under force, on one or two of your favourite gears.

 

Generally (except for extreme dirty conditions), you'll be able to fit several new chains before the cassette wont work with a new one.

 

I suggest you learn to measure your chain so that you can see how much it is worn. A chain that isn't worn past a point where it has elongated more than 1%, won't damage a cassette. A chain that is worn to 2% elongation has damaged a cassette. We've discussed that a few times here, search for "12 inches" or "1% wear." Look for a nice graphic posted my Mampara on how to measure the chain.

 

As for the second part of your question dealing with the various levels of chain in any manufacturer's range, it works like this.

 

1) All the chains in one manufacgturer's arsenal) are made from the same carbon steel. Therefore, they wear equally fast or slow, given that you're comparing 9-speed to 9-speed etc. A 10-speed chain wears faster than an 8-speed chain simply because there is less metal in the sideplates where they contact the pin.

 

2) As the chains go up in the range and become more expensive, two things happen. a) the plating goes shinier and b), the chain may get lighter due to cut-outs, hollow pins etc.

 

A bottom-of-the-range chain will have no plating, only superficial blueing of the chain - that's the brown colour you see on cheaper chains. The next one up will have th outer plates electroplated with something shiny - nickel or cadmium. The one up from that will have the outer and inner one plated for an even shinier look. Functionally, they remain the same.

 

The total linear breaking strain of a chain is irrelevant. If one manufacturer advertises its chain to be able to lift 2500 kgs and the next one, 2800kgs, the stronger one is not better. On a bicycle, linear force never breaks a chain. Cross-chain strength is much more important. However, most modern chains have pins that are peened all around and are strong enough for nomal and even abusive use.

 

Having said that, all chains are not equal. The sideplate profile determines how it shifts and how quietly it runs. Any chain from any of the top five manufacturers shifts very well with any of the three big names in componentry and any of the aftermarket sprocket manufacturers. The differences are subtle and you'll get lots of opinions on these. What works for you, works for you.

 

There is a difference in the sound these mix and match chain-sprocket combos make. Some run quieter than others. Surprisingly, one sometimes finds more peace and quiet by mixing components.

 

You asked about the differences in chains. I want to suggest that's far less important than understanding how chains wear, when they have exceeded their useful life and getting the most from them.

 

Cassettes are a similar story in that the tooth profile is the same throughout the range. They all shift exceptionally well. The difference here is more marked across the range than in chains, with cassettes becoming lighter and lighter as you add more X's and R's to your groupset name. Cheaper ones are also plated with less smooth plating - zinc plating at the bottom end of the market and chrome at the top. Neither has an effect on sprocket life and it is purely asthetic.

 

Sprockets (except for titanium ones and in the old days, some aluminium ones) are all made from case-hardened steel. The hard steel forms an approximately 0.5 mm shell around the softer inner steel. Once the chain has eaten through the hard case, wear is rapid.

 

The most cost-effective way to cycle is to buy the cheapest chain from a good brand and measure it carefully througout its life and replace it when it exceeds the limits. Not everybody wants cheap options, the shiny chains and fancy sprocket sets are for them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

I have used 2 XTR cassettes and broke a few teeth of one cog' date=' since that incident (Monster 2007) I have used XT cassettes and never had a problem (I average about 200km a week off road)

The XTR chain does not rust (great) I lube my chains after every ride (Squirt) I use the SRAM or the XT/Ultegra (HG93) with a SRAM powerlink, todate I have not broken a chain (But I'm only 73kg), perhaps the bigger MTB'ers would like to comment...

[/quote']

 

Teeth do break. Case-hardened steel plates of 9-speed thickness are not very strong laterally. Had you had an XT cassette on when that happed, it would also have broken, the steel being exactly the same on both.

 

I agree that fancier chains don't rust.....on their sideplates. These are chromed and resist rust more than naked steel chains. However, sideplate rust is cosmetic and doesn't affect the chain at all. Where it matters, in the swivelling interfaces, both will rust equally quickly.

 

You'll find that light or heavy people who have developed a good shifting technique will seldom break a chain. I can however foresee that a strong, heavy rider will break a chain easier when doing a poor shift than a bantamweight.

 

 

[Pom1]

 

Teeth do break. Case-hardened steel plates of 9-speed thickness are not very strong laterally. Had you had an XT cassette on when that happed, it would also have broken, the steel being exactly the same on both.

 

I agree that fancier chains don't rust.....on their sideplates. These are chromed and resist rust more than naked steel chains. However, sideplate rust is cosmetic and doesn't affect the chain at all. Where it matters, in the swivelling interfaces, both will rust equally quickly.

 

You'll find that light or heavy people who have developed a good shifting technique will seldom break a chain. I can however foresee that a strong, heavy rider will break a chain easier when doing a poor shift than a bantamweight.

 

But JB the XTR Big Cogs down to 21 are made of titanium, not steel? your comment confuses me...

 

The XTR chain is Zinc Alloy plated both inner and outer, the XT is plated only outer, they both weigh the same, but I stand by my comment lube after every ride, preferably with Squirt (i.e. do not clean with detergent, just wipe with a clean rag and Lube)

 

I use a Rapid rise, I am not too sure wheter this puts less or more Shear Stress on the chain than a conventional Derailleur??

[Wyatt Earp]

Pom

 

 

 

Your Squirt comment will get you in hot water, you will be asked, to scientifically explain and give telemetry and data as to WHY you say it works for you, all this will happen wanting a scientific explanation from your side but you will get NO knowledge in return (maybe lots of copying and pasting from google)

 

Viva Le Squirt.

 

I love the stuff as well.

 

Why ?

 

Because I DO.

[GoLefty!!]

Squirt, is a lube, just like all other lubes. They have a great marketing platform though and it's a local company. Thats fantastic and asrong selling point in my book. It is NOT a superior lube however.

 

Any lube will work, *** man, you can strip the fat off your biltong during a ride and mesh ito into the chain an it will lubricate as it breaks down. Still I wiull buy Squirt because it's Local. I don;t howver because I  motorcycle chain wax. Cheaper, and it goes further..

 

Chains:

A chain is a chain is a chain. Somelook prettier than others. XTR is more resistant to rust.

Sram also makes some good chains. It really does not matter which one you choose. I have had more chain failures in the past with SRAM though but I concede that that was possibly due to a bad batch.

 

Shimano chains all last long enough.

 

Just keep any chain clean and lubes with something