Your opinion on these two frames

[zeepee]

Somebody suggested to look at the Yeti ASR alloy as well.

What do you guys think of this frame?

 

http://www.jensonusa.com/product/BI/BI300B00blk.jpg

[Iwan Kemp]

On par with Spez Epic or SL or Racer X or or or...still no DW-link though.

 

Maybe not as quick steering as the RX, but that does offer a bit more "control". RX is blindingly quick when it comes to directions changes...but you can solve that with bars/stem.

 

Doesn't ride as hard as 96 or 08 Epic, not as relaxed as SL, not as steep as RX/Spark...closer to a 100mm Whyte. Great trail bike, awesome marathon XC bike and not a lot of them around.

 

Go with the carbon though.

[Wyatt Earp]

On par with Spez Epic

 

The Epic is a 4-bar linkage bike.

[Iwan Kemp]

Yes. ?

[Wyatt Earp]

Yes. ?

 

You mentioned it to be the same as the Superlight (single pivot) ????????????????

 

No ?Summit Cycles2009-05-15 01:41:14

[MintSauce]

 

 

 

Yes. ?

 

You mentioned it to be the same as the Superlight (single pivot) ????????????????

 

No ?

 

 

 

Actually, he said it was 'on par'

 

par  (p?r)n.

1. An amount or level considered to be average; a standard: performing up to par; did not yet feel up to par.

2. An equality of status, level, or value; equal footing: a local product on a par with the best foreign makes.

 

He did not say anything about it's design or construction.

 

edit: That being said, I do believe he was reffering to the Yeti ASR that someone suggested

 

 

MintSauce2009-05-15 01:58:43

[MTB Kid]

Pivot = Two Wheels Trading www.twowheelstrading.co.za

Also does Ibis' date=' Tomac, WTB, Stans, A2Z, DMR, Profile Design, Prologo...enough free advertising!

 

TWT will give you MUCH better back-up than Dragons. Experience talking.

[/quote']

 

Do they supply direct to the public?

 

Sorry - we only supply to cycle dealers. But feel free to contact us on 041-3685708 should you need tech info or details on your nearest stockist.

 

With regards to your "dilemna" - DW_Link suspension is well documented as offering a ride characteristic and level of performance that many other systems try to achieve but cannot ..... some have even described it as "life-changing". Yes, I am biased.

[Wyatt Earp]

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. ?

 

You mentioned it to be the same as the Superlight (single pivot) ????????????????

 

No ?

Actually' date=' he said it was 'on par'<span>par</span>? <span>(p?r)</span>n.

1. An amount or level considered to be average; a standard: <span>performing up to par; did not yet feel up to par.</span>

2. An equality of status, level, or value; equal footing: <span>a local product on a par with the best foreign makes.</span>

He did not say anything about it's design or construction.edit: That being said, I do believe he was reffering to the Yeti ASR that someone suggested[/quote']

 

....and being equal would put it in the same league.

 

He might have referred to the Yeti (which is a VPP derivative) but I am sure I read ON PAR with the SL (totally different ride to a 4-bar linkage), thus my response.

 

Crow probably has an Ibis.

 

I have a Specialized, which I think is the bees knees(does a bee have knees ?)

 

However I also like the Trek's (DW Link on some models)

 

Some might like bacon and some might prefer macon.

 

The DW link is not the final authority in full suspension design.

[MintSauce]

 

....and being equal would put it in the same league.

 

He might have referred to the Yeti (which is a VPP derivative) but I am sure I read ON PAR with the SL (totally different ride to a 4-bar linkage)' date=' thus my response.

 

Crow probably has an Ibis.

I have a Specialized, which I think is the bees knees(does a bee have knees ?)

 

However I also like the Trek's (DW Link on some models)

 

Some might like bacon and some might prefer macon.

 

The DW link is not the final authority in full suspension design.[/quote']

 

 

 

Ok....I see your offence is an emotional issue.

 

No point in arguing the point any further then.

 

 

 

 

[MintSauce]

 

....and being equal would put it in the same league.

 

He might have referred to the Yeti (which is a VPP derivative) but I am sure I read ON PAR with the SL (totally different ride to a 4-bar linkage)' date=' thus my response.

 

Crow probably has an Ibis.

I have a Specialized, which I think is the bees knees(does a bee have knees ?)

 

However I also like the Trek's (DW Link on some models)

 

Some might like bacon and some might prefer macon.

 

The DW link is not the final authority in full suspension design.[/quote']

 

 

 

Ok....I see your offence is an emotional issue.

 

No point in arguing the point any further then.

 

 

 

 

On second thought:

 

The Yeti bares absolutely NO resemblance to a VPP design. It has been argued that it bares some resemblance to a faux-bar. It has also been argued that it is rather close to a single pivot in design since there is no horst-style link on the chainstay but faux-bar is a closer call.

 

Which model Trek has a DW-link...? This is news to me. Unless you're referring to the so-called Split-Pivot on their newer bikes. This item was designed by DW(Dave Weagle) but is however a completely different concept that also bares absolutley no resemblance whatsoever to a DW-link design.

 

Please help....you're confusing me

 

As for the DW link being the final authority....too early to make that call. But I reckon there's a strong possibility you might eat those words one day.

 

 

 

[Bos]

....and being equal would put it in the same league.
He might have referred to the Yeti (which is a VPP derivative) but I am sure I read ON PAR with the SL (totally different ride to a 4-bar linkage)' date=' thus my response.
Crow probably has an Ibis.
I have a Specialized, which I think is the bees knees(does a bee have knees ?)
However I also like the Trek's (DW Link on some models)
Some might like bacon and some might prefer macon.
The DW link is not the final authority in full suspension design.[/quote']



Ok....I see your offence is an emotional issue.

No point in arguing the point any further then.

On second thought:

The Yeti bares absolutely NO resemblance to a VPP design. It has been argued that it bares some resemblance to a faux-bar. It has also been argued that it is rather close to a single pivot in design since there is no horst-style link on the chainstay but faux-bar is a closer call.

Which model Trek has a DW-link...? This is news to me. Unless you're referring to the so-called Split-Pivot on their newer bikes. This item was designed by DW(Dave Weagle) but is however a completely different concept that also bares absolutley no resemblance whatsoever to a DW-link design.

Please help....you're confusing me

As for the DW link being the final authority....too early to make that call. But I reckon there's a strong possibility you might eat those words one day.

 

jip...

 

I dont think theres necceseraly a best. cause we use different measures on which we base our findings.

 

I think what we have determined is 3or4 options that will no doubt be great choices and have different attributes which some people like more then others.

 

I hope the opinions did not confuse you but possibly the debating here confirmed that these bikes are all very good. DW- VPP etc etc.

 

good luck, let us know perhaps between the bunch of us one can organise a test ride.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

 

....and being equal would put it in the same league.

 

He might have referred to the Yeti (which is a VPP derivative) but I am sure I read ON PAR with the SL (totally different ride to a 4-bar linkage)' date=' thus my response.

 

Crow probably has an Ibis.

 

I have a Specialized, which I think is the bees knees(does a bee have knees ?)

 

However I also like the Trek's (DW Link on some models)

 

Some might like bacon and some might prefer macon.

 

The DW link is not the final authority in full suspension design.[/quote']Ok....I see your offence is an emotional issue.No point in arguing the point any further then.

 

 

 

 

Really

 

And then in your next post you try very hard to do just that.

 

Do you homework a little and then we can discuss this further.

 

Is that emotional enough ?

 

You are correct and yes my mistake, the Treks are a split pivot as designed by Dave Weagle, which they are trying to secure rights for and call it the ABP system Summit Cycles2009-05-15 04:34:27

[MTB Kid]

If it does not say DW_Link somewhere on the frame - It is not a DW_Link.

 

 

[Wyatt Earp]

If it does not say DW_Link somewhere on the frame - It is not a DW_Link.

 

?

 

?

 

Thank you, I don't think it was in question.

[Iwan Kemp]

Search DW-link on google (hell I'll do it fo you:   http://www.google.com/search?q=dw-link&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLJ  ) and you'll find all the info you need.

 

1. Trek never has and probably never will have a DW-link. Having said that I have ridden a Trek or two post and pre ABP and it does has a noticable difference so I must say they have improved quite a bit.

 

2. When I said on Par I meant riding quality. Par can never be read or understood as it has exactly the same suspension design. IMO All those bikes mentioned ride good. Responsive, well-balanced, neutral handling. And PLEASE NOTE: When I say a Spec is responsive I'm talking about one with a non-Spec fork or shock (they are crap...no need to argue, they are!) or an 09 Epic.

On par: they offer a good ride. Suspension design shouldn't be the deciding factor. Go on looks, likes, dislikes, price and the likes.

 

3. None of the suspension designs on them match any DW-linked bike I've ridden.

 

4. Yes, I owned an Ibis. Sold it to buy a Single Pivot Mbuzi. Bought it for the bike and intended use and not the suspension design. The Ibis is however not the only DW-linked I've ridden. Have spend some quality time on a Pivot (Mach 4 & 5) & Iron Horse.

 

On a particular IH the DW didn't feel great. But I think they stuffed the chainline, shock rate and other geo figures rather than it being the DW's fault.

 

SO FAR...I haven;t experienced a suspension design that can match DW. i WOULD love to give a split-pivot and Evil's Deltasystem a go... The man himself has been busy behind the scenes.

 

The question is: what do you LIKE in a bike. Plush, firm...what? If anything more people should be on Felt's Equilink bikes, but for some or other reason Felt managed to take a good bike and make it progressively worse over the last couple of years with geo changes.

 

Anyway. Ride what you like/fancy.

 

 

The Crow2009-05-15 06:30:21

[zeepee]

eish, be carefull what you whish for....................

 

ja, I'm a little bit more confused than when i started but I also have allot more info to my disposal. <?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Dont think the spez will come into the equation. They're awesome machines but if i wanted a (dare i say)common bike I wouldve kept the Trek.

I'm looking for something a bit more exotic, so i think I've narrowed it down to the Pivot and the Yeti.

They both seem to be good choices and I'm sure that with my skill level the difference in suspension type will be negligible

What concerns me most about the Pivot is the fact that they are very new, and very new in the country, and there has been some eyebrows raised at the backup I can expect from CL. Where as the Yeti has a proven track record and superb backup through MSC.

 

Thanks for all your input, I think the best will be to organize a test ride on both these machines and then make up my mind....

 

zeepee2009-05-15 07:24:10