hardtail or soft tail??

[adogshow]

suppose it also depends on how fit you are. Full-sussers take a lot of work to get up hills, but great down them. it would also depend on where you ride, the conditions and the kind of terain you want to tackle. you'd waste money and time getting a FS if you tackling rolling hills, jeep tracks and meandering trails. if its hilly, with jumps, single tracks galore where a FS gives you more fun then go for it. BUT a HT wont stop you even on technical terain.

 

money, goal for riding, fitness are factors you might want to consider.

 

[NotSoBigBen]

Girls also wants to enjoy mtb riding !!!

 

True but then again even they don't drink light beer

[Daxiet]

I was on Dual Susp, and now am on HT (Merida FLX) while they say the rear stays have flex by definition this maketh it not a softtail. I don't notice the flex, rear feels stiff as can be.

 

DS spoils you, you definetly ride any line you feel like and get away with murder. To get a light DS you need serious cash. For instance my HT shop genuine weight 10.6kgs, an Anthem X1 - Giant claimed weight of 11.5kgs (from what I have felt ~12kgs+). The X1 sells for ~R3K more.

 

Anyway not by any means running the Anthem down, it is an excellent value for money DS. If I hadn't decided to go HT I would have probably bought an X1.

 

So in theory I would say I am glad I started on a DS, it was more fun to ride and more forgiving. Now that I am acustomed to long rides on an evil thing called a saddle the HT is awesome. I can't say I find the riding uncomfortable, you just use your legs more and chose the optimal line. Rough descents are a bit more tiring, but for the rest I feel like I am on a pocket rocket.

 

To explain my take on optimal line: Even though on a DS you can chose any line, this isn't ideal. Any shock absorbed by the DS is force lost. So if you hit a bump and force needs to be absorb, you effectively have wasted energy (momentum). Hence an HT forces you to be efficient or feel the bumps.

 

So this theory poses a catch 22. DS are forgiving to start with and possibly will help getting you hocked on the sport. However HT's teach you to ride better, by punishing you when you step out of line. Not that this punishment is in the form of a crash.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I was on Dual Susp' date=' and now am on HT (Merida FLX) while they say the rear stays have flex by definition this maketh it not a softtail.

 

[/quote']

 

 

 

i think summit's article in the last edition of tread explains the softtail's place in the realm os sus quite well.

[dirtrider]

suckers for punishment is the term that comes to mind .

[GTfan]

I always thought that duel sus and soft tail were two in the same thing

[Canaris]

and then once you have decided that ST/DS is the way, you have to decide on what linkage system, how much travel, how hard to pump the shock, ext ext ext.

[Tumbleweed]

I always thought that duel sus and soft tail were two in the same thing

 

then you always thought wrong...

[Daxiet]

Something I forgot to mention: The only reason I chose to switch to HT from DS was to reduce weight and to be more competative.

 

DS = pleasurable ride but you still can't skimp on cost, you need to spend atleast 25K if buying a new DS. If you can't afford it, then the simple answer is go second hand or HT.

 

On the note of better climbing because the rear suspension better keeps you tyre in contact with the ground...can't say I have noticed that. Actually found that because the rear had movement at times you feel out of touch as to what is happening traction wise back there. I can safely say my HT climbs way better than my DS, positive feedback, better control.

 

 

 

[BruceB]

Some good arguments..

 

I vote FULL CARBON HARD TAIL...

 

Guys who ride Full/Dual suspension will need the extra comfort as they are on the track longer..

 

I'll ride Full/dual Sus when I'm over 60 years old becuase then I wont mind riding behind the girls..

 

and hey I'll be Comfortable while I enjoy the view..

[Lori]

thanks guys - but I wanna be comfortable and enjoy the view way before im 60...and im happy to ride behind with the girls

[Bos]

thanks guys - but I wanna be comfortable and enjoy the view way before im 60...and im happy to ride behind with the girls

 

OK, Ive been riding Full sus for about 6 years and Im busy building a Race Hard tail. been Mtbing for 13 years

 

If youre hanging with the front bunch on XC or marathon races then  mabe its ok (although in other countries the front guys ride fs)

 

If youre a trailrider and dont mind the weight (it only makes a real difference If youre really going for it of if the bike is really heavy) then get a fs, If you can afford one weight need not be a issue.

 

If they weighed the same, get a FS, If you got bucks , get a light FS

 

If you can only have one bike and like trailriding , racing, etc etc get a 4-5'' FS not heavier than 13kg, and You will be happy.

[Tumbleweed]

thanks guys - but I wanna be comfortable and enjoy the view way before im 60...and im happy to ride behind with the girls

 

 

 

that's where you'll normally find me ... stay away from the cheap full-sussers if you opt for that...

[swoosh1973]

Hang on is the lock out mechansim not for locking during ascents? This holds true for sure on smooth terained climbing. I have mostly experience on HT so i dont know if on very technical ascents a dual is better or not?

 

Does anyone else have experiene on the use of DS on very technical ascents being faster or easier to climb?

 

Would you lock out on TECHNICAL climbs or not and why?

 

[Daxiet]

 

Hang on is the lock out mechansim not for locking during ascents? This holds true for sure on smooth terained climbing. I have mostly experience on HT so i dont know if on very technical ascents a dual is better or not?

 

Does anyone else have experiene on the use of DS on very technical ascents being faster or easier to climb?

 

Would you lock out on TECHNICAL climbs or not and why?

 

 

I used to lock out on certain technical climbs, but when you're used to the gentle loving comfort of 60% travel on the Scott you find Lock Out very hard on your soft spots.

 

The idea behind the lockout on climbs was that your pedal stroke is not to some degree absorbed by your suspension. I wish they would do some studies calculating what % of your energy is absorbed by a rear shock when standing and when simply sitting and pushing hard.

 

Anyway it is safe to say that some percentage of your pedal power when not locked out is always being lost to the rear shock.

 

[EZRider]

 

Why go hard tail when there is a comfortable option?

 

I didn't love mountain biking till I got my Giant Anthem.

 

If you are looking for something to 'get into' mountain biking and dont want to spend too much money' date=' then a hard tail will be better value for money. If you can afford to spend a bit, get a nice full susser and love it from the beginning.

 

[/quote']

 

Agreed. It's a question of LOVE.

You don't know how much you miss a full susser until you have spent time on one.

Was back on my HT today for a 45 km ride (FS in the shop for a service) and boy was I sorry.

At my age, 38, full suspension any day.

 

I don't quite get the whole learning skills thing. On the FS you will learn the skills needed to ride it safely and as fast as you can go. Why learn HT skills you don't use. One could just as easily say: Learn to ride on a bike without any shocks at all before you buy something with a springy fork. On my FS I have actually learned more technical skill because it has given me the courage to try things I balked at on my hard tail.

 

As to weight: Yes, you need to spend a lot to get a light FS. Mine cost me 20 k and that was on a hefty special.

But don't think cheap HT bikes are light. They aren't. My budget GT avalanche 2.0 weighs in at nearly 15 kg!! That is 2.5 kg heavier than my full suspension bike.

To get a light HT you will need a light, strong fork and wheel set and these are not budget items. A light and strong HT will cost you upside of 10 k at the least so you wont be buying one of those to "test the waters" but probably an anchor with cheap components which may very well put you off the whole thing in the first place.