Eldron Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 And now 2c from a Metallurgical Engineer!1) Steel is dead. It has a terrible (relatively speaking of course) strength to weight ratio' date=' can't be manipulate easily due to the thin side walls and very little money is being spent on new steel alloying technology. Steel is effectively a low grade construction material. I'm not sure where the "wonderful ride quality" myth comes from - except if by wonderful you mean soft and whippy. My opinion is that steel bikes are for wonderfully nostalgic chaps (like me!) who want to reminds themselves of the good old days.What! Can't believe you said this! Loads of money is being spent on steel-alloying technology, just take a gander at the bicycle shows overseas, 90% are steel bikes. There's a huge factory in Italy that does nothing but manufacture, supply and research steel tubing for bicycles. Steel is relatively cheap and far easier to weld than aluminum, and is longer lasting. Most independent frame builders work in steel and will do so for a long long time. There's a major trend right now in the States where the longer endurance races are being completed on steel bikes, the majority being hard-tails. The only reason the top pro's ride aluminum and carbon fibre is because that's what their sponsors insist on them riding. It may have a sucky steel to weight ratio, but alu is not much better, and again steel outlasts alu by miles.[/quote'] Loads of money is a relative term - loads more is being spent on aluminium technology and even more on carbon/composites. 90% of the HANDMADE bikes shows feature steel bikes - complete with chromed lugs, wild paint jobs and relaxed cruising angles. Every serious bike show is smothered in carbon with a smattering of aluminium. The steel factory you'rew talking about in Italy is the Columbus factory. It's about 100 years old. I'll agree with "major trend" when Tinker Juarez rides a steel bike and any world championship is won on a steel bike. Steel outlasting alu is also incorrect - thanks to modern alloying techniques and heat treatment. Besides - have you ever ridden a bike long enough to break it? I have. 7 in fact and 6 of those were Columbus SL and SLX. Every crack on every steel bike origniated from the weld. Steel is not easier to weld than alu - thanks to modern inert gas techniques . Steel is heavy, difficult to manipulate, requires stupidly thin wall thicknesses to compete weight wise with alu/carbon, RUSTS... OK I'm bored now - tell you what - show me an aeroplane, racing car, high speed train, racing boat, rowing boat - anything where strength/weight/stiffness is important that is made of steel and I'll go out and buy a hat so I can eat it.Eldron2009-10-06 14:56:10
Eldron Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Mister Metallurgical Engineer Man.So what is the thick glassed texbook analysis of titanium' date=' personally I think its the best.[/quote'] The thick glassed text book says many good things - unfortunately it also says that the price tag is LARGE, Ti is impossible to weld and the number of reputable manufacturers is few... Alas I have no personal experience on Ti so I can't really say. If money were no object I'd certainly give Ti a go but only from Litespeed or Lynskey (same thing really).
AndreZA Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 For me there are two category of cyclist. - those who love cycling who also likes a bicycle to look like a bicycle. - and those who love racing that's into aero dymanics and poncy eating plans.
Dirty Twin Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 For me there are two category of cyclist. - those who love cycling who also likes a bicycle to look like a bicycle. - and those who love racing that's into aero dymanics and poncy eating plans. Para I guess you are not a poncy eating plan kinda guy
Eldron Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Define large Litespeed Ghisallo $4500 (900g frame with no rider weight limit!)Lynskey Helix ?2750 Ti is nice! @mampara - why the divide man - some of us love bikes - fat ones, little one, fast ones, heavy ones, shiny ones AND we have poncy eating plans. I own a steel bike, a single mtb, a poncy carbon race machine, a 29er race snake mtb and a fat assed dually. They all rock - for different reasons of course.
gummibear Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Lynskey Helix is a awsome frame.Just huge moolla though.
dollar Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Eldron. Do you have your hat yet? Best you get one boet. I will show you lots of planes, F1 cars, Moto GP bikes etc etc that use a great deal of steel in their construction. Do you suppose that a crankshaft in a Moto GP bike is made of carbon fibre? Or a valve is made of aluminium? High speed train wheels made of carbon fibre? I wonder why not? Why does this low tech stuff (steel) appear in such very, very demanding areas? When I was at school - Aluminium had less resistance to fatigue than steel. Subject steel to repeated bending stress within its elastic limits and it carries on for years. Apply the same forces to aluminium and it breaks much sooner.
Willehond Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Eldron. Do you have your hat yet? Best you get one boet. I will show you lots of planes, F1 cars, Moto GP bikes etc etc that use a great deal of steel in their construction. Do you suppose that a crankshaft in a Moto GP bike is made of carbon fibre? Or a valve is made of aluminium? High speed train wheels made of carbon fibre? I wonder why not? Why does this low tech stuff (steel) appear in such very, very demanding areas? When I was at school - Aluminium had less resistance to fatigue than steel. Subject steel to repeated bending stress within its elastic limits and it carries on for years. Apply the same forces to aluminium and it breaks much sooner. There are no Aluminium bits on bikes, only alloys and as we all OBVIOUSLY know, alloys have completely different properties...
Eldron Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Eldron. Do you have your hat yet? Best you get one boet.I will show you lots of planes' date=' F1 cars, Moto GP bikes etc etc that use a great deal of steel in their construction. Do you suppose that a crankshaft in a Moto GP bike is made of carbon fibre? Or a valve is made of aluminium? High speed train wheels made of carbon fibre? I wonder why not?Why does this low tech stuff (steel) appear in such very, very demanding areas? When I was at school - Aluminium had less resistance to fatigue than steel. Subject steel to repeated bending stress within its elastic limits and it carries on for years. Apply the same forces to aluminium and it breaks much sooner.[/quote'] There are no Aluminium bits on bikes, only alloys and as we all OBVIOUSLY know, alloys have completely different properties... Willehond - plain steel or plain alu are both pretty pathetic - both steel and alu are only really useful when alloyed and heat treated. @dollar - you can hardly compare a crank in a car to a crank on a bicycle - a car creates say 100kW (a sad family car) and spins at 6,000rpm - a bicycle rider can create 2kW (if he's Cipo) and spins at 100rpm. All the items you mentioned require wear resistance AND srength. Fit for purpose is the right term... We're discussing bicycle frames here so...show a GP bike, train, F1 car, aeroplane frame/structure etc with a steel frame and I'll chomp 2 hats Hopefully they'll be straw... Show me a Tour de France winning bicycle with steel frame, fork, wheels, bar, stem, seat pillar etc. and I'll chomp a 3rd hat for free. I just don't believe the "riders ride what the sponsor gives them" line. If steel was such a good performace material for bicycles - riders would be on steel bikes with the logos removed - like they do with wheels, cranks, tyres, bars, stems etc. I still feel steel is a great material for touring bikes, cruising bikes etc. but carbon and alu both trump it as a performance material for bikes.Eldron2009-10-07 06:29:39
AndreZA Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Show me a Tour de France winning bicycle with steel frame' date=' fork, wheels, bar, stem, seat pillar etc. and I'll chomp a 3rd hat for free.[/quote'] this one had a steel frame and fork. (you did say wich TdF) http://top-10-list.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/miguel-indurain.jpg
Eldron Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Show me a Tour de France winning bicycle with steel frame' date=' fork, wheels, bar, stem, seat pillar etc. and I'll chomp a 3rd hat for free.[/quote'] this one had a steel frame and fork. (you did say wich TdF) http://top-10-list.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/miguel-indurain.jpg Good old Miguel - he could have won a TdF on a baby's tricycle... Luckily we've made progress since then! Note to self - buy hat and eat it - I did say a TdF - even an early 90's TdF...
zeepee Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 carbon mtb's are great, looks cool, light, all your mates talk about it.......until your top-of-the-range carbon frame breaks. Then you and your mates Then you buy yourself a alu yeti. Lesson learnt.........
Eldron Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 carbon mtb's are great' date=' looks cool, light, all your mates talk about it.......until your top-of-the-range carbon frame breaks. Then you and your mates Then you buy yourself a alu yeti. Lesson learnt.........[/quote'] Agreed! My mtb doesn't have a sinlge piece of carbon on it.
AndreZA Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Agreed! My mtb doesn't have a sinlge piece of carbon on it. except the bits of dinosaur in the tyres and tubes.
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