Why you are not welcome in the cradle

[waynex]

You will find that most people who spend a lot of time on the road obey the rules. Not because they are nice guys but because these rules keep them safe. The best advice I ever got about safety is stay as far to the left of the road as possible. 

[Gasping]

My issue is that the Cradle residents (represented here by a sum of one I think' date=' but feel free to correct me) do not want cyclists in their "crib". There is no "Please can you sort this out" or anything like that.

 

The thread is simply "Why you are not welcome in the cradle". There is nothing else other than "go away".

 

Para, I understand your viewpoint as well.

 

Me? I probably would not drive through the place. I don't go where I am not welcome.

[/quote']


That is such a "Well screw you too" attitude. The thread title simply explains the current situation....due to the cyclist's behaviour, they are not currently welcomed by the residents.

 

Where did I say screw anybody? If I am not welcome, I leave. Even the Hub as a matter of fact. My mother did not raise a thick skinned person. Thick in the head is up for discussion though.

Now you can respond to that with "Well screw you too....I'm out of here"' date=' which will make the cradle residents very happy I assure you, or you could be a bit more mature, clean up your(and I refer to all cyclists) act and be welcome and THEN....then everyone is happy.[/quote']

 

When are cyclists COLLECTIVELY, as a whole, in a bunch going to clean up their act? BigH has insulted many who disagree with him. Others have asked nicely, even pleased to their sense of right and wrong. The result? See page 1 for details.

Personally' date=' I'm ashamed to be associated with the idiots in these photos.
[/quote']

 

You and me both. At what point did you get the impression I was condoning their actions? Perhaps I will not ride in the Cradle to avoid being associated with these individuals.

 

I also do not for one minute think that EVERY cyclist is to blame, but such is the nature of humankind that people are grouped together and labelled.

[CradleCyclist]

Cradle Resident. I invite you to come and join us for a training ride on the weekend. It takes guts, dedication and sweat to be on the bike. Let see how you fair. Until you get on a bike and pedal you will never understand it. Yes, there are cyclists on the roads....SO WHAT! Sleep in on Saturday and Sunday and by 09:00 we almost all gone.

 

 

 

Do you drive a white VW minibus? My father in-law was harassed by someone in a VW minibus vehicle with a video camera. He is 60 years old, and if it was you, you chose the wrong man. We do not go out on our bikes to harass motorists. We have equal right to the road and when someone endangers our lives then there is a reaction. If it was you, you jumped straight back in your car when the old man wanted to give you a hiding. In the future let's avoid this happening again.

 

 

 

Don't drive around setting up cyclists, hooting behind them and making problems. You are doing this premeditated and its wrong. Wouldn't our cities be better off with plenty cyclists on the roads? A common respect between bikes and cars. In Europe many people ride about on their bikes, it a lifestyle for them. Our mindset in South Africa is to live in this golden cage, behind our electric fences and security gates. We have everything but we don't get to enjoy it, especially been able to walk from to A to B, or to get on a bike. Cycling is one of those enjoyments.

 

 

 

We are never going to go away. My taxes paid for that road I ride on and so did the other cyclists. So deal with it constructively. In South Africa and in life you will always have frustrations but that's life.CradleCyclist2009-11-10 02:00:20

[WR 1.0]

Myself and some friends were also out cycling in the cradle on Saturday morning. It did look like a race was on with all the cyclists putting in some last ditch effort before the 94.7. Hell, I even saw the MTN support vehicle stop to assist one of the Cyclelab cyclist. Horror!

Here are my comments/ opinion:

Yes, the volume this weekend was a lot higher than previous times

Yes, there was some "idiots" that give those of us that "behave" a bad name.

In our group we also ride 2/3 abreast but move back into single file if we hear or see a vehicle approach.

Another factor here is the current road works going on and the road surface. The cradle is one of the few spots in Gauteng with an actual cycle lane (albeit just for certain sections), however, the road surface on sections of the cycle lane is quite bumpy, and being on a road cycle without any front suspension to soak up these bumps, it is easier on the arms and hands to move to the right of the yellow lane in search of that elusive smooth piece of tar.

The road works have also taken probably a third of portions of the road out of play. It gets quite hairy if there is cars coming from both directions (the road is only that wide!) Most of the times you would take a chance and move into the roadwork sections (you can see the sections I'm referring to in one of the photos) but then you risk getting your tyres cut on the uneven surface.

I'd reitterate the previous calls for some cool heads. Not all cyclists are to blame here.

In the words of Ringo Starr: "peace and love"......

[MintSauce]

 

That

is such a "Well screw you too" attitude. The thread title simply

explains the current situation....due to the cyclist's behaviour' date=' they

are not currently welcomed by the residents.[/quote']

 

 

Where did I say screw anybody? If I am not welcome, I leave. Even

the Hub as a matter of fact. My mother did not raise a thick skinned

person. Thick in the head is up for discussion though.

 

 

I didn't say you said screw anybody. I was simply describing your attitude, which does not provide any solution other than to create the impression of someone taking offence and then leaving in a huff with a "Well screw you too".....I guess it's a little analogy I have in my head that describes your response.

 

 

 

 

Now you can respond to that with "Well

screw you too....I'm out of here"' date=' which will make the cradle residents

very happy I assure you, or you could be a bit more mature, clean up

your(and I refer to all cyclists) act and be welcome and THEN....then

everyone is happy.[/quote']

 

 

 

When are cyclists COLLECTIVELY, as a whole, in a bunch going to

clean up their act? BigH has insulted many who disagree with him.

Others have asked nicely, even pleased to their sense of right and

wrong. The result? See page 1 for details.

 

I was also going for that 'Man in the mirror angle' ie change your attitude as opposed to the whole "Well screw you too" analogy....you know....improve yourself for the greater good

 

 

 

Personally' date=' I'm ashamed to be associated with the idiots in these photos.

[/quote']

 

 

 

You and me both. At what point did you get the impression I was

condoning their actions?

 

When someone like cradleresident comes onto the forum and starts a thread such as this and someone responds with your attitude, then I have to wonder why you'd take so much offence...? Feeling guilty perhaps...?

 

Anyway....I'm making way too many assumptions here so no offence intended.

 

The bottom line of my first post was simply that your attitude brings no mutually beneficial solution.

 

But, having said that, for the good of the sport I'd rather have all the cyclists have your attitude and never go back than have a few non-cyclists think we're all law-breaking, disrespectful wankers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[linnega]

I notice that CradleResident has disappeared.  No doubt he feels well justified because he has the overwhelming support of even the cyclists on the Hub.  That is probably the most damaging part of this entire issue on the cycling community as a whole.  Perhaps Gasping has some of the best points.  The residents of the Cradle area are not in a position to demand that cyclists not ride there - the road does not belong to them and they have no more right to it than anyone else in the municipality that pays their rates.  It is tantamount to me insisting that all motor vehicles be removed from Durban roads because of the number of traffic offences I see motorists commit every day.  My points are not meant to justify or condone unsafe behaviour (I think the legality of behaviour is irrelevant in the context of cyclists on South African roads), but to illustrate the fact that all of this is a non-issue.  Yes, motorists may get aggravated by some behaviour - get over it.  I deal with motorist stupidity every day, the big difference is that the potential impact for me is death - the potential impact for a motorist is inconvenience.  Not really a fair comparison. linnega2009-11-10 02:30:30

[Slave]

Cradle Resident. I invite you to come and join us for a training ride on the weekend. It takes guts' date=' dedication and sweat to be on the bike. Let see how you fair. Until you get on a bike and pedal you will never understand it. Yes, there are cyclists on the roads....SO WHAT! Sleep in on Saturday and Sunday and by 09:00 we almost all gone. [/quote']

 

Not a bad idea. Common understanding helps solve problems.

 

Do you drive a white VW minibus? My father in-law was harassed by someone in a VW minibus vehicle with a video camera. He is 60 years old' date=' and if it was you, you chose the wrong man. We do not go out on our bikes to harass motorists. We have equal right to the road and when someone endangers our lives then there is a reaction. If it was you, you jumped straight back in your car when the old man wanted to give you a hiding. In the future let's avoid this happening again. [/quote']

 

This is another illegal act. Assualt on to of being a dumbass road abuser. The attitude here is if you don't like the way I ride let me m03r you until you do.

 

VERY MATURE. (Please note the sarcasm there)

 

Don't drive around setting up cyclists' date=' hooting behind them and making problems. You are doing this premeditated and its wrong. Wouldn't our cities be better off with plenty cyclists on the roads? A common respect between bikes and cars. In Europe many people ride about on their bikes, it a lifestyle for them. Our mindset in South Africa is to live in this golden cage, behind our electric fences and security gates. We have everything but we don't get to enjoy it, especially been able to walk from to A to B, or to get on a bike. Cycling is one of those enjoyments. [/quote']

 

The only thing of value you have in your entire post, and then you go and contradict yourself, many times.

 

We are never going to go away. My taxes paid for that road I ride on and so did the other cyclists. So deal with it constructively. In South Africa and in life you will always have frustrations but that's life.

 

Perhaos it is because of all the criminals. Crime starts with getting away with something small and escaltes. Breaking the rules of the road may be petty crime but this sort of attitude will perpetuate the propblem.

 

I suggest you adjust your houding and help solve the problem. Not throw more fuel on the fire.

[Cradleresident]

Cradle Resident. I invite you to come and join us for a training ride on the weekend. It takes guts' date=' dedication and sweat to be on the bike. Let see how you fair. Until you get on a bike and pedal you will never understand it. Yes, there are cyclists on the roads....SO WHAT! Sleep in on Saturday and Sunday and by 09:00 we almost all gone.

Do you drive a white VW minibus? My father in-law was harassed by someone in a VW minibus vehicle with a video camera. He is 60 years old, and if it was you, you chose the wrong man. We do not go out on our bikes to harass motorists. We have equal right to the road and when someone endangers our lives then there is a reaction. If it was you, you jumped straight back in your car when the old man wanted to give you a hiding. In the future let's avoid this happening again.

Don't drive around setting up cyclists, hooting behind them and making problems. You are doing this premeditated and its wrong. Wouldn't our cities be better off with plenty cyclists on the roads? A common respect between bikes and cars. In Europe many people ride about on their bikes, it a lifestyle for them. Our mindset in South Africa is to live in this golden cage, behind our electric fences and security gates. We have everything but we don't get to enjoy it, especially been able to walk from to A to B, or to get on a bike. Cycling is one of those enjoyments.

We are never going to go away. My taxes paid for that road I ride on and so did the other cyclists. So deal with it constructively. In South Africa and in life you will always have frustrations but that's life.[/quote']

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Things get so twisted here, and if you took the time to read the posts you would not make such stupid comments, but then again there are many hubbers here who have this thing called commen sense, so to those few who make the dumb remarks, dont expect a response

 

A few things

This problem did not start yesterday. I had a meeting with Giovani about 2 years ago and he agreed there were problems and they would try reslove them. I think i even sent an email to Ian Jones

 

I have never said we want a petition banning cyclists.

 

I have never advocated violence , but some other resdents have.

 

I am a social cyclist ,I ride a mountain bike and i ride 3 times a week at about 6am

 

I and the residents are looking for a solution

 

If you think i am one person complaining, read the local newspaper that did an article about a year ago, also ask any and i mean any resident about the way the feel.

 

I didnt pick the weekend before the 94.7 on purpose, i didnt even know it was on this weekend. If you read the first post you would see that a resident called me saying he COULD NOT TAKE the cyclyst issue any more and asked me to go and see what is happening.

 

The 94.7 has nothing to do with the issue , except that there were more cyclysts than usual on the road. Think about it. If a cyclyst is going to ride in the middle of the road before the 94.7, then thats the way he rides normally.

 

And to respond to the above post

I drive a few cars and one of them is a Vito crew cab

If your father in law has his picture in this forum , then yes it was me and if you read the forum, you would not have asked such a stupid question

 

As to the hooting, i didnt hoot once on the whole route and yes it was so tempting , but your father in law (if it was him) was riding in the middle of the road and i hooted once to move over and then again to move over which he didnt do. I then managed to get a gap to pass him and he  shouted i should pull over, which i did. So he says i jumped in my car becauce i thought i was going to get a hiding. Maybe ask him again. If you want i can show u the video, but hey if thats what you like to think, then thats ok.

 

As to the "i chose the wrong man" part. Not sure what you mean, maybe you can elaborate.

 

As to your enjoyment of cycling. Please dont make your enjoyment my pain.

 

The taxes thing is so old. Um, do you pay license taxes on your bike,does your bike have a registration number. Yes and i know your taxes paid for the road blah blah blah. So now that your taxes are paid up, you can now behave badly. 

 

All i can say is thank God there are a lot of hubbers here who are looking for a solution, have common sense, promote respect ect ect.

 

Tell you what cradle cyclist. I need to send an email out to the community on what is going on.

 

What do you want me to put in the email.

Cyclists are here to stay , we must get used to and accept our weekends getting messed up, becauce of arrogant cyclists. We are not allowed  out before 10am becauce cyclists want to ride in the road. 

 

Let me know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CradleCyclist]

I'm going to enter into a diatribe. You are preoccupied, even obsessed with 'invading' cyclists. My father in-law will not tolerate having his life put in danger. As matter of fact, I don't think anyone would. Some riders do ride irresponsibly and they do ride in the middle of the road at times and I cannot excuse that, but simply overtake them if you want to pass. Just like any other vehicle on the road. In my father in-laws case he was going down the Muldersdrift hill at 65km/h. His first concern is his personal safety. The oncoming right lane was clear for you to pass, so what was the problem? I'm all for a solution but it needs to work both ways.CradleCyclist2009-11-10 04:24:29

[Slave]

Cradlecyclist, might I suggest that you approach this topic with a little more sensitivity and a better attitude. Inflamatory remarks will not solve the problem.

 

Clear thinking and reasonable intelect will. This is not about who will tollerate what, it is about solving a problem.

 

As a cyclist and motorist, I see both sides here and cearly, there are a lot of cyclists who not only balatantly disregard the rules of the road, they also have a *** houding.

 

It worries me that if some people ride their bikes like chops, then they probably drive their cars in pretty much the same manner.

 

Let's leave the spilt milk and look for solutions.

 

Neither party own the roads but I do believe that certain people have greater rghts to be there if you can grasp that concept. Residents live there. A lot of cyclists drive somewhere close and the ride there.

 

If we analsys that for a sec, then the residents have greater rights to be there and why should they have to rearrange their lives because some dick-on-a-bike thinks he owns the road and has a bad attitude?

 

But this is not about rights, it about common sense safety. Riding at 65 km down a hill does not engender the notion of someone concerened for his personal safety. He puts himself at risk by doing this so is he intolllerant of his own behaviour? He should be.

 

The rule of the road is for slower moving vehicles to keep left. And if conditions are not conducive to ride at that speed in safety, then I'm afraid to say,I think the person concerned is just another arrogant tosser on a bike and deserves whatever comes down.

 

Just suppose someone dies as a result of not being able to get medical treatment on time because someone on a bike is more concerned with their own enjoyment and not interested in the emergency in the vehicle that needs to pass, but is instead, forced to wait.

 

Personally, I think you are obsessed with your own ego and enjoyment and have forgotten that we all need to share the roads in harmony.

 

Antagonising the motoring fraternity is not the best way to do this.

 

 

[Eldron]

Isn't it amazing how many sides/stories/attitudes/supositions and implications come from a few photos?

 

In a nut shell - all the cyclists in the photos are not being curteous. The solution - be curteous.

 

Battering the "we also pay tax", "if we were trucks", "drivers also act like pillocks", "you don't own the road" drums do nothing to solve the problem.

 

Sit down cos I'm going to give you the answer again - and it's earth shattering believe me. Listen carefully cos I vill say ziss only once:

 

Be curteous on the roads.

 

Tu dah! Problem solved.

 

It's rocket science.

[NotSoBigBen]

 

Clear thinking and reasonable intelect will  - here on the HUB

 

[Slave]

Eldron, that is earth shattering simplicty that will be effective.

 

Some just cannot grasp this simple truth though. Leastwise not untill they work on their attitude.

 

Being courteous is the correct attitude of course. Being an arrogant piilock is not.

 

Courtesy implies tollerance and being sensible. It appears this commodity is in short supply in some quarters.

[Spinnekop]

I have decided to jump in.

 

I can see why Cradleresident is so disgruntled.  People behaving badly......

The point I would like to get to......it's HUMANS........not cyclist.

 

If I had to go out with my video camera on ANY route....lets say the road up from where I live.....I would come back to the hub.....or in this case I would find a good car site and post hours and hours of video of HUMANS behaving badly.

 

Skipping the robot is a favorite.  No seat belt.  Cellphone talking.  No indicating. 

 

HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  AND HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Same goes for pedastrians....

If I had a gripe against them.....took out my camera and I ASSURE you, I WILL find sh*t loads of wrong doings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why bitch about it?  Why come onto a cycling web site and bitch? 

I cannot go drive into the f$*#%*$ that is driving in the yellow lane?!  I have to eat it up.....some people are put onto this planet to temp you!!!!  JUST LIVE WITH IT!!!!!

 

 

 

Please don't make your enjoyment my pain.

 

 

 

So now that your taxes are paid up' date=' you can now behave badly. [/quote']

 

Nope.  But the argument is put forward that a cyclist has a right to "live".  Use the road.  If that is using it in a bad way, so be it.......it is not because he is not paying taxes or he is....it is because he has no respect for his fellow human being.....

 

But.....if....and heaven forbid IF you ride next to your buddy and say a quick "hey dude....slow down, I am suffering" and you as motorist comes past.....- he made a mistake by riding next to his friend.........live with it.....don't be judge and jury and try and kill him.   You are NOT GOD.

 

 

What do you want me to put in the email.

Cyclists are here to stay ' date=' we must get used to and accept our weekends getting messed up [/quote']

 

Not in that way.

I don't see a problem here....WHY are you people is such a HURRY?!?!?!?!  WTF?

 

You drive at 40km/h for 20km or so.  You will reach your destination about 18min later than doing  100km/h. 

 

So now this arrogant cyclist have made

your blood boil. 

Made you spend at LEAST 2 hours of your time on a web page where you could have done something positive.  Y

You are pissed off. 

You nearly killed 70 people on your way. 

You wasted your camera's battery.  You have to recharge it now making your carbon footprint even bigger.

You had to go out in your motorized vehicle, using precious oil resources making your carbon footprint even BIGGER

You guzzled, I don't know HOW much toxic fumes in the air with your car making your carbon footprint even BIGGER

and on and on we go.............

And all in the name of 18minutes?

You could have driven slower.  Used less fuel.  Slower hart rate.  Lower blood pressure.  Bird watching.  Talking to the family.  Listened to music. 

 

18 minutes.

What is the rush?????????

 

We can go on and on about this topic.  Seriously.  ANY TOPIC.  Wrong is wrong.  No matter what.  The cyclists here are not obeying the rules. 

And here is the sad fact.  Neither them nor ANY road user/human being WILL EVER obey the rules.

Bitch about it......or don't.

Your choice.

 

Good luck with your problem.

 

 

[Eldron]

Slave - yeah it befuddles me why all the fighting/name calling/debate rages on...

 

There might be some photos that are misleading - cyclists overtaking one another, dodging potholes in the cycling lane etc but by and large most of the riders seem to be in the middle of the road for no avoidable reason.

 

If they weren't there there wouldn't be a problem.

 

The attitude of "i'd rather be right and dead than wrong and alive" makes me want to print "i'm stooopid" signs and start handing them out.

 

Ironically I think most people as individuals are smart enough to know the answers but somehow mob mentality makes them forego use of their brain.

[Slave]

 

Clear thinking and reasonable intelect will  - here on the HUB

 

 

Enter BigBen, our resident "voice of reason."

 

Sorry dude, apparently I wasn't thinking when I posted that. I forgot about you.