Advice on Upgrade

[Cheese]

Hi ,

 

I have a Aluminuim Road  bike 10 years old with Campag mirage groupset from 10 years ago.

My complete bike weighs 10.5 kg

I have Alex AT450 rims with mirage hubs.

 

 I want to upgrade with around R15 000 and want to know what will give me best improvement on looks , ride and time . Time is most important if possible.

 

Any advice from all the clever guys , and please dont tell me to buy a MTB.

 

[Andyr249]

I would look at new wheels. I have upgraded to the Easton EA90 Aero wheels with their R4 hubs. Being very happy. They were around R6k. You could also look at a new groupset. For value for price have a look at SRAM. They are generally much cheaper than Shimano and Campy and just as good if not better.

[Minion]

If your priority is to improve your time, the best money you can spend would be on a coach. Closely following that is a proper HR monitor or even a power meter.

 

If you're looking to loose weight on the bike, the biggest potential loss for the least money would probably be a wheel upgrade. Moving to a 10sp groupset could also help.

The best way to save money when upgrading is to buy second hand parts.

 

[bikemonster]

If you're looking to upgrade with around R15K and potentially a bike to sell, you should also go and see what R17-R20K will buy you by way of a new bike.

 

 

 

You may find it more cost effective to replace than to upgrade.

[AndreZA]

hang around the classified section. Sooner or later you will pick up a bargain. Especially after the Argus.

[Edge_Design]

For that money, I would say buy a complete bike off the hub... can get a very nice bike for around R15k. Alternatively, if you really want to keep your bike, SRAM Force (R8k) and some decent wheels (R3k - R6k) should come in under your budget and leave some money for some carbon goodies... Could even get a decent frame for the extra R4k (I have a brand new full carbon 56cm frame for R5k for example ).

[manbearpig]

15k on some potent chemicals will improve your time quite a bit

[The_Break]

Hi ' date='

 

I have a Aluminuim Road  bike 10 years old with Campag mirage groupset from 10 years ago.

My complete bike weighs 10.5 kg

I have Alex AT450 rims with mirage hubs.

 

 I want to upgrade with around R15 000 and want to know what will give me best improvement on looks , ride and time . Time is most important if possible.

 

Any advice from all the clever guys , and please dont tell me to buy a MTB.

 

[/quote']

 

There are 3 main criteria when looking at time with regards to your bike:

 

Aerodynamics: Biggest gains in order are on your wheels, frame, handle bar (careful as aero handle bars reduce stiffness)

Mass: Take off mass firstly on your wheel, then your groupset and then your frame (often reducing weight on your frame comes at a compromise to stiffness and handling on poorly designed frames that are often also cheap frames)

Stiffness: Biggest gains are in a stiff frame, a stiff crank and in a stiff handlebar and stem. Stiffness on these components is most important when sprinting, climbing and high power accelerations.

 

The greatest of these factors when riding solo is of course aerodynamics and so you would want to start with something that makes you more aero, but also reduces the mass. These would be wheels. There are many different wheel options out there if you look in the right places. New or 2nd hand you can probably pick up a decent set of wheel for between 6-9k. This being said though, if you mostly ride in bunches and are seldom away in a break then there is no real reason for deep section wheels as they will only look pretty as you don't need the aero advantage unless you plan on trying to break away. But these wheel wont give you that much advatage over current setup.

 

Next I would upgrade the frame in order to improve climbing and sprinting ability. This is an area where most people struggle to keep up with the bunch. A nice stiff rig will help you a lot in putting all the power into moving the bike forward. More so than going 3kg lighter. Especially when out the saddle.

 

Buying a stiff stem and handle bar is always much more important than getting them light. Much easier places to save weight.

 

Buying a lighter groupset is probably a waste of money right now if you have a set budget. I would only consider a stiffer crank.

 

Another big area that is often overlooked is rolling resistance of tyres. Difference between a good and bad tyre can be as much as 2.5minutes over 40km. If you are riding in a bunch where most of your energy is going toward rolling resistance then you would benefit from a nice set of racing tyres which then helps you save energy for later in the race when you need it most. In a break they are just as effective.

 

In summary I would aim for aero wheels (if you are an aggressive rider), a stiffer frame and a stiffer stem, handle bar and crank. The rest you can make lighter as you can afford it, but this should give you a nice boost. You will probably take +-2kg off your bike in this way.

 

Don't be fooled by LBSs as a light frame is not good in being light in itself. Dont forget about aero and stiffness. Many "non-light bikes" can go to 6.8kg rather easily nowadays.

 

If you can get hold of a Cervelo Soloist Team or S1 frame 2nd hand I would suggest this as they are aero, very stiff and pretty light. Don't be fooled by carbon, many good bikes are made using different materials.

 

Good luck!

[Cheese]

Hi ,

 

Thanks so far,

 

Have a HR monitor and train according to program.

 

Would like to get nice looking bike but is not only interested in this. My question is how do you know now if bike is stiff. Do you go according to LBS or what measurement is in place.

 

Want to keep my bike as well as I wont really get much for it and can still use for training.

 

If I buy second hand bike on Hub for around R10K will have money for set of wheels on Hub

 

The_Break

 

What is good racing wheels I currently have gators on and would really like that 2.5 minutes.

 

My wheels inluding tyres and casette currently 3.6 kg

 

[GoLefty!!]

Hi ' date='

 

I have a Aluminuim Road  bike 10 years old with Campag mirage groupset from 10 years ago.

My complete bike weighs 10.5 kg

I have Alex AT450 rims with mirage hubs.

 

 I want to upgrade with around R15 000 and want to know what will give me best improvement on looks , ride and time . Time is most important if possible.

 

Any advice from all the clever guys , and please dont tell me to buy a MTB.

 

[/quote']

 

 

Its hard to provide good advise when you know nothing about the riding of the person asking the question.

 

You want to improve your time in what event from what to what?

5h2min 30s ec to 4h59min59sec

 

or sub 4hr or sub 3hr at Argus, 94.7 etc etc.

 

Whats you current fitness level? and where do you want to get to?

 

whats your age? How flexible are you? can you fit on one of these really aggressive race bikes with looong top tubes and small head tubes?

 

Some details would be lovely. then perhaps I can offer something beyond the superficial

GoLefty!!2010-02-22 07:14:53

[The_Break]

Gators are more a training tyre so you will save some time on a racing tyre. Best racing tyre I ever used was a Vittoria Pro Diamante Light. Lasted me longer than any tyre I have ever ridden and are really good rollers. Corsa Evo CX open clincher is fast but doesn't last that long. Nice thing about Vittoria is that you can pump to 10bar if your rims can take that. I have also used Conti GP4000s to good effect. Hutchinson I find a bit soft.

Sound like your wheels alone are about 2.6-2.8kg. So with a pretty standard set of deep section you should take off about 1kg. That in itself on wheels will help you.

 

There are so many good wheelsets out there. I suggest doing some research. I have only ridden a few of them so would be bias.

 

Stiffness, there is a simple way to test. Stand with bike next to you and press down and inward in the pedal to see if there is a sideways flex in the frame. Try a few different bike of diferent materials and costs if you can manage to convince the owner. You will notice the flex to vary. Sometimes quiet a bit. Get a feel for a good and a bad flex. Now this is what happens when you trap out the saddle with a leaned-to-the-side bike. Just like a spring, it takes energy to flex the frame. Now when you are cycling your push on the pedal is over a very short time and with a stiffer bike the energy goes into moving the bike forward instead of flexing the frame. It has to do with reaction time. Imagine bike wheel with a rubber arm and a metal arm sticking out. If you try and rotate the wheel with the metal arm it will move as fast as you push. However with a rubber arm, if you push really quickly and release the drum will not really move as the rubber took up all of the push. If you however push slowly on the rubber arm it has time to allow the wheel to turn. This is similar to what happens in a bike. Reaction time allowing the flex. Stiffer the frame the better the reaction on short time intervals.

[Cheese]

Hi ' date='

 

I have a Aluminuim Road  bike 10 years old with Campag mirage groupset from 10 years ago.

My complete bike weighs 10.5 kg

I have Alex AT450 rims with mirage hubs.

 

 I want to upgrade with around R15 000 and want to know what will give me best improvement on looks , ride and time . Time is most important if possible.

 

Any advice from all the clever guys , and please dont tell me to buy a MTB.

 

[/quote']

 

 

Its hard to provide good advise when you know nothing about the riding of the person asking the question.

 

You want to improve your time in what event from what to what?

5h2min 30s ec to 4h59min59sec

 

or sub 4hr or sub 3hr at Argus, 94.7 etc etc.

 

Whats you current fitness level? and where do you want to get to?

 

whats your age? How flexible are you? can you fit on one of these really aggressive race bikes with looong top tubes and small head tubes?

 

Some details would be lovely. then perhaps I can offer something beyond the superficial

 

Want to improve time in 94.7 from 3:15 (Of course have improved training for this purpose as well so will improve still on same bike)

Hopegully sub 3 Argus.

 

Want to get as fir as possible with around 10 hours per week

 

I am 37 and not too flexible, used too get lower backpain but with core training and setup has not really anymore but donot think I am very fexible

 

I weigh 85kg and is 1.81. Current top tube55.5 cm.

 

My problem is as stated by "The break" most people get dropped on the climbs. I am training but this still seem to happen to me as I can just not stay with group as well as when they accelerate very fast which means my race change to TT.

Will stay just behind for 5k or so but can just not catch bunch again.

 

Looking for real improvement not a band or magic trick.

 

 

[The_Break]

cut cut cut

 

My problem is as stated by "The break" most people get dropped on the climbs. I am training but this still seem to happen to me as I can just not stay with group as well as when they accelerate very fast which means my race change to TT.

Will stay just behind for 5k or so but can just not catch bunch again.

 

Looking for real improvement not a band or magic trick.

 

 

 

Here are two magiv tricks even though you not looking. On getting to the base of the climb, start near the front. This could save you 30m or more as you will slowly move through the bunch and may still be on the back by the end of the climb. Sometimes even going to the front a setting the pace helps if no one is keen to ride hard as you set the tempo you are comfortable with. Only works sometime though.

 

Then a nice magic trick, when you climb, climb in the drops when you are out the saddle. Your arms will be straighter and you will have more push and pull on the bars. It is like a small set of legs extra. This is one of the reasons I mentioned having stiff stem and bars as the power transfers nicely into motion. Try it during training and you will quickly notice the diffrence between climbing on the hoods with bent arms and in the drops with straighter arms.

[GoLefty!!]

Ok thanks for that, it helps to form a much better picture of what you should be doing.

 

1) Training programme

 

You will need to follow a structured training program to improve on the hills.

Hill repeats are advised. start with 30 sec flat out, 60sec rest, 30 flat out 60 sec rest. repeat this x10 for 3 days of one training week.

following week rest and focus on steady pace climbing, week three, repeat week 1 but increase the flat out portion 45sec.

 

You clearly won;t be able to fix this for argus 2010.

 

2) Bike

 

at 10.5kg you are clearly at a disadvantage to other riders on 8 kg bikes.

Your weight for yor height seems ok and your fitness is also ok.

 

Here what you can spend R500-00. when you down in Cape Town, go see Dr Jeroen Swart at the Sports Science Institute in Newlands. Get a power based bike set up done. Keep you old bike for now, do not spend any money.

Once you have the numbers for the ideal postion of all the contact areas between you and you biek, go shop for your new bike armed with those numbers.

Since yo have little flexibility you may need a more upright seating position on the bike and a all out racer may not do the trick for you. You may need to get something with a more comfort oriented postion i.e. a frame with a longer headtube and shorter top tube. Bikes like the Cannondale Synapse and Specialized Roubaix come to  mind. Giants Defy is also more comfort oriented as is LOOK's 585 Optimum.

At this point you may discover that the bike you need is going to cost a little more than what you budgeted for. Start saving,but get the bike that fits in with the number provided by Dr Swart.

 

The rest is not an issue. Forst you must fit the bike properly so be more concerned with the frame than the parts and the wheels.

 

I know you're wanting a more instant gratification, andI will urge you to kerb those feelings and exercise patience.

 

An example, a few years back i went and bought the race bike i wanted only to discover that it banged me up so badly that I started to hate riding. Performance and desire to ride suffered.

 

A few will urge you to buy now and buy from them. Its your money at the end of the day but all I can offer you is the above advise based on experience.

 

My Look 585 Optimum will only be in my hands by May. I've wrtten the Argus off and will ride my MTB. I've spent more money on Physio and BSr than i saved on the difference between the 585 and the previous bike.

 

Buy once and buy right. Or you can ignore this and opt for instant gratification.

 

Balls in your court.

 

[Minion]

 

My problem is as stated by "The break" most people get dropped on the climbs. I am training but this still seem to happen to me as I can just not stay with group as well as when they accelerate very fast which means my race change to TT.

You may find that, although you're following a program, it's not focussing on your limiting areas.

 

I was in a similar position to you last year. I had been following a program for about a year and had seen my times improve from around a 24 index to a 17-18. As my seeding improved and I started riding with faster groups, I found myself getting dropped on hills and by accelerations. I kept to the program and started some hill training etc. but it didn't really help.

 

Eventually, I read The Cyclist's Training Bible by Joe Friel. In the book he discussed how you need to focus on training your limiters (weak areas that affect the outcome of your races). I realised that, although my program was focussing on hills etc., it was not actually training my limiters. I was training for longer efforts (>10min) and I was actually doing OK when those occured. What was getting me dropped was the points in the race where I had to push hard for short time intervals (<5min). I needed to change my program.

 

There is enough information in the book to guide you in setting up your own training program, but I didn't really have the inclination to do this myself, so I started working with a coach just after the 94.7. In the three months since then, by following a program specifically tailored to my needs, I have seen massive improvements in my cycling (probably more than all of last year up to 94.7). I am now starting to hit new limiters and my program will be adapted accordingly.

 

Upgrading my bike may have produced incremental improvements in my riding (or it could just have been training), but having a program adapted to my specific needs has resulted in a step-change in my ability.

 

If you're not sure about coaching, at the very least do yourself a favour and spend the R250 to buy the book from Kalahari. It was certainly an eye-opener for me.