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Comparing Brakes...


Wernervdmerwe
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Nice data from Bikeradar comparing brakes.

 

Some of the brakes improved in force when wet and cold - hence the blanks in some of the blocks, that amount of force just caused the brakes to lock up.

post-4498-073563300 1279129090.jpg

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is this saying that Shimano Deore (budget XC) is stronger in all pulling force than Avid Code (high performance DH)???

And also all the more expensive shimano XC sets (they seem to get weaker from Deore to XTR!!) WHAAAT?

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hmmmm, I got Saint levers on XTR calipers.

 

Where would that set up be in the rankings?

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I rode XTR and XT, and true to the results, the XT's has noticeably more power - that said, I am a 87kg rider... Test was done simulating a 100kg rider.

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I rode XTR and XT, and true to the results, the XT's has noticeably more power - that said, I am a 87kg rider... Test was done simulating a 100kg rider.

 

Haha!!! I have "Limeded edition white DEORE" and paid R850 for the set on CRC am I not chuffed.

 

But

 

I will assure you that they are not as powerfull as my XT's that I had before- Ise it, Dont use it...

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The pulling force is the non-variable in this graph. I.e. they supply 50, 100 or 150N of force onto the brake lever and the test rig (bike??) then decellerates by the variable expressed in m/s/s.

 

I'd imagine that the reason some of the blocks are blank is that the brakes locked up under that particular condition and therefore the result is meaningless. The OP could of course enlighten us if this was not the case.

 

All-in-all, this is a non-sensical exercise and one shouldn't buy or not buy a particular brake just because it got a bad decelleration number in this table.

 

In the real world, you are limited by traction. And, if traction is perfect, then you are limited by overturning momentum. Just about any brake can lock up or overturn the bike.

 

I'd rather look at things like oil vs brake fluid (the latter sucks in my opinion), adjustability, looks, weight (if you are that way inclined) and costs of spares.

 

Unfortunately in the real, real world, we choose a bike, not brakes and you get what you get.

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I dont see how hard data are less meaningful than subjective opinion - unless you live within a social science paradigm. If you live within a natural or physical science paradigm you have to take real data seriously! The gaps are meaningful in that they show the brakes locked out owing to their power! We (or at least I do) like to put as little effort into pulling on the brakes as possibe - and that is what these data show. My only concern here is that there is no indication whether these are means or single replicates. Means with some indication of variance would provide much more info as there is always variation in data, once off measures are unreliable. We all buy bikes and bike parts partly owing to what hey look like etc but also want the best product for our money. As weight is not so important to me I will buy deore next round - the data shows they are really good - and they look good!

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...in the real, real world...

 

It's like the matrix in the matrix!

 

Nothing like keeping it real! haha!

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I dont see how hard data are less meaningful than subjective opinion - unless you live within a social science paradigm. If you live within a natural or physical science paradigm you have to take real data seriously!

 

Say what? I have a masters in Engineering and I just blacked-out!

 

But you make a good point ;)

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I dont see how hard data are less meaningful than subjective opinion - unless you live within a social science paradigm. If you live within a natural or physical science paradigm you have to take real data seriously! The gaps are meaningful in that they show the brakes locked out owing to their power! We (or at least I do) like to put as little effort into pulling on the brakes as possibe - and that is what these data show. My only concern here is that there is no indication whether these are means or single replicates. Means with some indication of variance would provide much more info as there is always variation in data, once off measures are unreliable. We all buy bikes and bike parts partly owing to what hey look like etc but also want the best product for our money. As weight is not so important to me I will buy deore next round - the data shows they are really good - and they look good!

 

Analysis paralysis. We don't know much about the data but I'm sure anyone who went to this much trouble would have gotten rid of the errant data.

 

Brakes don't generate power but nevertheless, I disagree with you that lock-out is a good thing (if indeed that is how I should read you). It is an extremely bad thing. On cars and motorbikes we employ electronics and pumps to prevent it.

 

The most forceful brake is definitely not the best one. We're not stopping a train, we're stopping bicycles with high centres of gravity. We are much more limited in decelleration than just about any other vehicle and seeking out the most forceful brake is silly and outright dangerous.

 

I have no idea in what pradigm I'm encapsulated - you decide.

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I say brakes are only good to the point when you loose traction. Have you ever felt that when you skid in your car and the brakes lock and you start sliding it feels like you are accelerating. You can get that power from V brakes aswell.

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So what is the purpose of the more expensive and more "powerful" brakes then?

 

They are lighter, build better (casing and seals) and all the knobbies to adjust lever reach and pad contact. And ofcourse how they handle heat build up.

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So what is the purpose of the more expensive and more "powerful" brakes then?

 

More expensive never has a purpose.

 

More "powerful" is a dodgy label and I think one mostly used for marketing. Most people don't know how good brakes differ from powerful brakes.

 

Larger disks have a purpose and a side-effect. The side-effect is more braking force. The purpose is better heat dissipation and longer lasting. There is more surface, hence the heat is spread over a larger area and dissipated easier. More surface also means less wear (on the disc only, the pad will wear at the same rate).

 

It would obviously cost more to manufacture gadgets like reach adjust and it would cost more to forge rather than cast, so that you can have a stronger brake body. Stronger means you can use less material and then claim less weight.

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All-in-all, this is a non-sensical exercise and one shouldn't buy or not buy a particular brake just because it got a bad decelleration number in this table.In the real world, you are limited by traction. And, if traction is perfect, then you are limited by overturning momentum. Just about any brake can lock up or overturn the bike.

 

I agree you are limited by traction, but if the same rider rides two sets of brakes back to back, the rider will weigh the same and the traction will be the same and overturning force will be the same. The harder you brake, the further back you place yourself to compensate and therefor not lock the front, I have not once, even by grabbing buckets full of brakes (then you place yourself way back), manage to lock the front out - therefore a more powerful brake will stop you faster.

 

 

The most forceful brake is definitely not the best one. We're not stopping a train, we're stopping bicycles with high centres of gravity. We are much more limited in decelleration than just about any other vehicle and seeking out the most forceful brake is silly and outright dangerous. I have no idea in what pradigm I'm encapsulated - you decide.

 

I have ridden Shimano and Formula, currently on Formula The One, which by your 'silly and outright dangerous' standards should be banned. The Shimano's did not have adequate modulation or power to confidently stop me and I had to start braking well in advance if I needed to slow down. Yet now I find myself having more confidence and more control while riding and go much faster as I need less distance to slow down. Braking later means an higher average speed. There is a high center of gravity which you counter by placing your but behind the saddle when you brake hard. I think one needs to differentiate between disciplines here I guess. In XC you need less deceleration force than in AM or DH riding.

 

So what is the purpose of the more expensive and more "powerful" brakes then?

 

The purpose of more powerful brakes is just that - more powerful. More powerful is not necessarily lighter.

I do agree with Johan that power in itself is not the answer and people just buying the most powerful brake they can get might do themselves a disservice as they might just lock the brakes up and slide or flip over. But as your skill improve, so the benefit will of having more powerful brakes, specially for us guys hovering near the 90kg throwing ourselves down steeper gradients!

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