Cycling SA, what the flip were you thinking???

[Willehond]

Willie Engelbrecht - Bronze at commonwealth games road race

JP van Zyl - Kerin medalist

David George - 3rd world U23 TT champs

James Perry - 3rd world U23 TT champs

 

Unfortunately this was all back in the 90ies and just out of isolation.

 

These guys new how to train and trained in RSA to race at world level! David George know how to train and choses his race to race in and train to that level. What I am saying is not all riders are the same - so for some maybe been based in Europe is the answer, but for other been trained correctly at home has also worked as well if not better!

Sorry, but the Commonwealth Games road event is a bit of a joke. English countries used to be only good on the track.

 

I don't see any Senior World Champ roadrace results in that list. How did these guys do in that? Best to compare apples with apples

[Seepglad]

So now that World Champs are over... Our elite men registered 3 out of 3 DNF's (which was most likely to always have been the case). I know everything is always easier in hindsight but you cant help but wonder if it would have rather been more beneficial to send our u23's instead of elites???

 

hmmm.... always next year i guess!

Boet, which u23 rider is close to your heart?

[Christie]

The point of a 180km distance for elites would not be to get mass participation. It would be to test the strongest pro teams. There should not be the option for a licensed ride over 100km. If they want to race over 100km, they would have to enter open cat / A bunch, for much less / no prize money.

 

Longer distance local races may help nothing for medal results, unless blood doping is stopped in pro cycling, or our riders ride for Euro teams that have access to it.

[Icycling]

They were all on the juice programmes, if I remember correctly? Perhaps today's okes aren't?

[Icycling]

And the riders who beat them and who they beat were not? Probaly on far better juice!!!!

[DB28]

Boet, which u23 rider is close to your heart?

 

Apart from myself??? :-) hehe

 

Nah, I just feel we have a good batch of talented riders between the ages of 18-23 at the moment and I would not like to see talent like this wasted. Too many times in SA cycling a good couple of talented riders have come along but never really reached their full potential as pro riders due to lack of support.

[cyclingfiend]

This has been quite a good, informative debate so if you can only make snide comments then rather keep out of it!

What doesn't seem to have sunk in very well is that a decent cycling team needs Sprinters ( the eventual podium places), semi-sprinters - the tough lead out men, the pace setters/domestiques and a time trialist or 2.

If CSA's plan to select from minimal continental tour teams and only riders who have been on the podium, then a team of mostly sprinters will emerge. The likes of Eisel and Renshaw, Jens Voight, etc, wouldn't meet their criteria because they essentially don't race to win but to provide essential team support, and consequently rarely get on the podium.

I am quite convinced that in SA right now, we have the right mix to put together a reasonably competitive world class team if certain phobia's that exist can be shaken off.

By all means work on youngsters for the future but its going to be very difficult without the resources and expertise of totally dedicated proffessionals. (The likes of Chris Boardman who got the Brits off the ground in a very short time!).

It's the now and next few years that need to be worked on in the interim, and at all levels!!!

[DB28]

This has been quite a good, informative debate so if you can only make snide comments then rather keep out of it!

What doesn't seem to have sunk in very well is that a decent cycling team needs Sprinters ( the eventual podium places), semi-sprinters - the tough lead out men, the pace setters/domestiques and a time trialist or 2.

If CSA's plan to select from minimal continental tour teams and only riders who have been on the podium, then a team of mostly sprinters will emerge. The likes of Eisel and Renshaw, Jens Voight, etc, wouldn't meet their criteria because they essentially don't race to win but to provide essential team support, and consequently rarely get on the podium.

I am quite convinced that in SA right now, we have the right mix to put together a reasonably competitive world class team if certain phobia's that exist can be shaken off.

By all means work on youngsters for the future but its going to be very difficult without the resources and expertise of totally dedicated proffessionals. (The likes of Chris Boardman who got the Brits off the ground in a very short time!).

It's the now and next few years that need to be worked on in the interim, and at all levels!!!

 

what you are saying is most definitely true, but i think CSA has been pretty good in this regard though. When ever they have selected national teams they have always gone with at least two riders who can get the results, be it in stages or on GC. The rest of the team is made up of riders who could do the bulk of the donkey work, as well as follow breaks etc. Obviously it's always wise to select all riders who are on good form. If you got strong donkeys then how much easier will the "leaders" job be.

 

CSA get their selections right, they always have a good balance because as you say we have a good balance of talent to choose from at the moment. I just want the guys to be racing more, at good quality events for the experience...

[SwissVan]

Every year come World Roads we have the same results and the same discussion...

 

Seems like no one important enough is listening or learning?

 

Reminds me of a dog trying to hump a football and just going around and around in circles.

[cyclingfiend]

A final comment from me that also has some relevence to team selection: The average age of the first 10 in this years elite worlds was 29. Youngest Greg van Avermaet @ 26 and oldest Oscar Freire @ 34. The more seasoned players seem to handle the tough indurance events best. Modern diets and exercise routinesalso seems to be increasing the "useable" age of a cyclists and so should increase the options available!

[butafly]

every year wc road race is a parade for 100 kms with the bunch not letting the early attack (there is always one) get too far ahead. with about 100 k left , there is a flurry of attacks to weed out the weak (i suppose over the last few years this includes rsa), and this usually results in the final selection of the best riders who will then catch the break spit them out and its every man (team) for themselves.

if the spanish had not missed that crucial break, then maybe thor would not have been in the sprint because they had to work very hard to breach the gap.

imho the belguims showed real class, they controlled the race, Gilbert should have taken his chance in the sprint instead of a lone attack, Cadel Evans is a tough nut, the italians messed up as usual and the french (can't remember). Thor showed everone that it takes a lot of suffering and guts to win, he must have really suffered to claw his way over those climbs.

[perry]

What can we say about CSA?

[Groot Lem 2]

I have a suspicion our 2 top u23 riders in the National team this year as far as performances in Nations Cups go, both agree that they were not ready to perform at worlds this year, they were both juniors last year and need some more development. If they get a top 20 in next years Nations cup events, they do qualify. Copenhagen circuit is also flatter than Melbourne and will suit Reinardt better. Australia was a very expensive exercise but if the boys medal in Delhi it was all worth it.

[Shebeen]

why is doing well at worlds such a big deal?seems like a mammoth exercise with little reward. appears that CSA is on the right track with their limited resources anyway.

 

remember aus and uk are only good cycling nations because they throw heaps of $$$$ at it, montreal olympics australia came in 32nd in the medal table (just beating the powerhouses of Iran and Mongolia to that spot). The next year they started the AIS and have 'bought' excellence ever since. i'm not saying we shouldn't manage the sport correctly, but some of these ambitions are just not worth the funding required. I'd rather we built electricity capacity/schools/infrastructure than try win medals at worlds.

 

we already punch above our weight as a cycling nation. you should all know:

greg minnaar -

skitzo -

burry -

 

these okes are world class and dominate in their disciplines, and i doubt the authorities had much in getting them there (ok skitzo got some fun with uci programs)

 

we have a mass funride culture in sa - it's brilliant and must be the envy of most cycling focussed countries who do well at worlds. if it seems like the local pro scene is a bit lame, then the talented guys must just go race mtb or do the tried and tested race in europe.

 

who seriously gives a crap about worlds?we rock as a cycling nation.

[Caerus]

Every year come World Roads we have the same results and the same discussion...

 

Seems like no one important enough is listening or learning?

 

Reminds me of a dog trying to hump a football and just going around and around in circles.

 

 

Bwah ha ha - thats brilliant, gonna have to use that one

[DB28]

I have a suspicion our 2 top u23 riders in the National team this year as far as performances in Nations Cups go, both agree that they were not ready to perform at worlds this year, they were both juniors last year and need some more development. If they get a top 20 in next years Nations cup events, they do qualify. Copenhagen circuit is also flatter than Melbourne and will suit Reinardt better. Australia was a very expensive exercise but if the boys medal in Delhi it was all worth it.

 

maybe other riders then, i can think of another 11 u23's that are really strong riders who coulda ridden worlds. I suppose none of them met the criteria... okay so fair enough then. We didnt go to worlds.

Now my question is, not all of those 11 got to race in the NC or national teams. Im sure the reason they all couldn't go firstly, was funding and secondly only 6 guys ride in a team at NC...

 

So are we creating fair opportunity for all our riders? i dont know... is the selection criteria up to scratch? We'll lets look at a scenario... SA u23 rider is in a select group of 25 riders at a NC event. he punctures with 20km to go... the remaining 24riders all finish together... if he did not puncture he woulda finished with the bunch and possibly got, lets say an 18th position. he then woulda qualified to make the SA worlds team. but now he does not make it and it's not for lack of ability... and if only 6 guys can ride in a team, how do you give all riders the chance to prove themselves as they might not perform in their first 2 events but would in the 3rd? maybe the criteria is a bit flakey then? (i dont know the rest of the criteria as it cant be downloaded anymore... link broken on site)

 

Is something maybe like the South African version of the Livestrong U23 Development team or AIS u23 Team to far off for South Africa??? an u23 Squad that race full time all year round for the same team... if i had the money to support a project like that id happily give it all to CSA.

 

anyway... i really hope we do medal at CWG, that'd be cool and the road commission doing a great job regardless! Though i am still waiting for a date on the CSA 2011 race calender... have got a real good 170km race for the pro's but with no date, my potential sponsors are becoming more and more weary as their financial budgets which are done in March gets closer and closer...