New Roadblock Protocols

[chris_w_65]

"The department is currently claiming the death toll for December 2008 to be 1 348; it was actually 908. The death toll of 1 050 for December 2009 is thus not a reduction, but an increase of almost 16%," he said.

 

He said December 2009 claimed 142 more lives when compared to the same month in 2008, despite around 285 000 speeding tickets being issued.

 

"Speed control has once again been shown to be ineffective at reducing road deaths."

[scotty]

They want to check for tax dodgers, illegal immigrants, if you may have a warrant. Pretty much everything. If you dont have your id they will take finger prints for processing I cant see how it would work, its seems a massive infringement on ones human rights

Great now i have to pay my taxes

[Caerus]

@ chris w 65 - Now this is THE F****ING absolute best point i.e your comment that pedestrians should be tested. I respond to many, many, many idiots who have been knocked down by motor vehicles. Especialy in the city area (Cape Town). The average pedestrian in these times has the road sense of a Goat! They do not look before crossing. They do not look while crossing. And, when drunk, generally have no idea of what hit them. As in the freaking hard surface of a car, and then the tar, leaving a sober driver to be seen as the protagonist.

 

Perhaps it can be a case of hit and then test.. with a foot in the face!

 

 

Youre giving goats a bad name

[firewolf]

You know what? At the end of the day, if you are legal, sober, licensed, etc then you actually have nothing to worry about. And, we know that we as cyclists are often the ones taken out by these drunk drivers. And even drunk pedestrians.

So maybe lets stop moaning and just carry on regardless.

[Caerus]

Its not so much that, its the passenger situation that could become an issue and the processing of them. I dont drink so if they bust your for that, then good

[Gasping]

They had a road block outside of Magalies on Monday, the idiot running the show on the otherside of the road stopped about 6 cars, got all stroppy when no-one could park where he wanted them to (cause we would have been blocking the road, there was no marked out stopping area!), took everyone's licence, came back 5 minutes later and said we could go. The rest of them were stood around doing pretty good imitations of statues. Lights, discs, tyres etc were not checked, what a waste of time...job creation and nothing else.

No one said they were all paragons of virtue. I would gladly give up 5 minutes of time at a roadblock. What was he doing for those 5 minutes? Maybe checking to see if anyone was "a person of interest"?

 

Maybe the next time not everyone who was stopped would be law abiding citizens. Time well spent if you ask me.

[chris_w_65]

Now every time they stop a taxi they will have the potential for 20 bribes

[Mojoman]

No one said they were all paragons of virtue. I would gladly give up 5 minutes of time at a roadblock. What was he doing for those 5 minutes? Maybe checking to see if anyone was "a person of interest"?

 

Maybe the next time not everyone who was stopped would be law abiding citizens. Time well spent if you ask me.

Its the other 10 or so that always stand around doing nothing that gets me. One could have been checking tyres, another the licence disc, another the lights. But its called productivity and thats a dodgy word!. I don't think any of us really mind being stopped, but nothing was really accomplished other than an ID check, what about the rest of the car, does that not contribute to road safety? On the opposite side of the road they had a camera set up at licence plate level but on my side of the road nothing was going on!

[Gasping]

All valid points Mojo - perhaps these are teething troubles early on in the campaign?

[firewolf]

The potential for rookie cops allowing the situation (The sudden power of the Uniform)to get the better of their judgment definitely exists so its best just to put a s**t eating grin on yer face, say as little as possible, look ahead, and get the ****outta there as quickly as possible.

Stow the ego. Keep the mouth shut. Keep the eyes fixed on a point. Smile. Leave.

[Lucky Luke.]

That sounds almost like the speed camera's in the UK where instead of just trapping you at one spot, they monitor your speed between two points.

 

As I remember the points are a few metres apart though. Nowhere near half a block.

[chris_w_65]

The potential for rookie cops allowing the situation (The sudden power of the Uniform)to get the better of their judgment definitely exists so its best just to put a s**t eating grin on yer face, say as little as possible, look ahead, and get the ****outta there as quickly as possible.

Stow the ego. Keep the mouth shut. Keep the eyes fixed on a point. Smile. Leave.

 

And don't forget to slip him a 50

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Speaking as an ex-policeman...

 

1. Although no law says you have to carry ID on you, a policeman has the right to detain you until your identification is proven adequately.

 

2. A policeman has the right to stop and search anyone provided they have cause, and a high crime rate is considered justified cause.3. A roadblock can be set up with warrants, though these are generally small and are referred to as vehicle checkpoints, most of the big roadblocks do have their paperwork in order including warrants issued by magistrates to stop, search, take blood etc etc...

 

 

Yeah correct, BUT the inverse is also true, lets take an extreme example, you are scooting down the road on your bike, a cop activates his red light and forces you to pull over and stop - That is siezure without a warrant and is illegal, it still remains the responsibility of the police to PROVE he had justification in stopping you on suspicion of criminal activity or witnessed criminal behaviour.

 

Remember traffic infractions are NOT CRIMES and were never intended to be crimes, the fact that we dont complain and run to court when stopped willy nilly in the street is NOT ANY INDICATION its legal - we just accept it and the law is blurred.

 

NOBODY can be deprived of life, liberty or property with out due process of law.

 

So if for example they want to prosecute passengers for been drunk in a car, they would have to prosecute them for been "drunk in public" (which is illegal but never policed) but then they need blood tests, and costs start mounting, is it worth it, No, are they going to start stopping every citizen staggering home from a shebeen or a party at his neighbours house for been drunk in public, I doubt it, so yes the law can be there, but is it worth policing is the question.?

 

I doubt it again, I can assure you any half assed advocate is not going to have any difficulty in getting you off a drunk passenger offense when and if your case comes to court.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

You know what? At the end of the day, if you are legal, sober, licensed, etc then you actually have nothing to worry about. And, we know that we as cyclists are often the ones taken out by these drunk drivers. And even drunk pedestrians.

So maybe lets stop moaning and just carry on regardless.

 

THAT IS NOT THE POINT, and a common reaction amongst citizens of SA.

 

The point is they have no right to infringe on my life as a sober, licensed, legal citizen without due cause, and the fact that 50 people down the road are drunk and stoning cars is not due cause to infringe on my rights.

 

Sadly, I and most others will probably just accept it as part of SA life and move on, actually there is not much else we can do, but believe me, it would not happen in say the USA, there would be a huge outcry and 1000's sueing the state for breach of the 4th ammendment.

[Gasping]

Grumpy, I agree with the getting off on a charge of being a drunk passenger - as long as the driver is sober/under the limit, he would then be the designated driver and the passengers would be the designated drinkers.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Grumpy, I agree with the getting off on a charge of being a drunk passenger - as long as the driver is sober/under the limit, he would then be the designated driver and the passengers would be the designated drinkers.

 

Sure, harassing citizens with silly laws, and wasting manpower to police and control a non existant problem is stupid, and will never stand up in court, the countries legal system is in serious trouble, but we have not yet sunk to those levels.

 

A drunk passenger poses no threat, ITS THAT SIMPLE,... what will they do next, impose laws that make it obligitory for drivers to ensure their passengers carry ID BOOKS, are sober, have no tax violations, have paid all their Edgars debts, dont have any speeding tickets outstanding, dont intend to get drunk in public..........its just stupid, if one person is prosecuted, I will be very surprised.