Red Light Runners

[Sean Badenhorst]

Kiwi, do you hit brakes down Sandton Drive to make sure you don't break the 70kph limit?

 

No club or club captain condones breaking the law. However, the majority of club members are adults that should have a decent level of responsibility as well as a desire to live a long, happy life, so are highly unlikely to purposefully break the law AND risk death.

 

Judging by how unhappy you were after your ride this morning, I assume it's unlikely you'll ride with the Engen group again. However, if you do, then ride near the front (anyone is allowed to ride there) and you will notice  that there is a fairly high level of responsibility regarding the safe of unsafe conditions at red lights. Bonus: More people will also notice what cranks you have if you ride at the front.

 

Like Andrew says, it's when the bunch sizes are so big that potential problems can arise. But if you're in the second half of a huge pack and see the light changing to red, it's your own decision to keep riding through regardless of whether there may be vehicles from either side.

 

In seven years of riding regularly with the Engen group (at least 600 times), I have never seen one incident at a red light where a vehicle has ploughed into the pack.

 

Most of the riders hit by cars are riding alone or with one or two others and their lack of visibility counts against them. These also usually happen after 7am when the traffic volume is growing. The Engen ride is usually over by 6.45am and most are home by 7am.

 

I am in no way condoning breaking the law, but if I was to stop at every red light on the Engen group ride, I would get home 20-odd minutes later and be just as grumpy as you were today. And I don't want that.

 

Note: My personal opinion does not necessarily reflect that of any publication I work for (except maybe those sex tips I wrote once for FHM a few years back...)

 

 

[shaunh]

Ya, Racman but be more environmentally friendly and ask for Diesel!!! shaunh2007-11-07 02:51:37

[linnega]

Ewep - the Metro cop you spoke to is a moron.  A vehicle is defined as something that is propelled predominantly on wheels and has a driver.  That would include all manner of motorised cars, motorbikes, donkey carts (which is why "predominantly" is included in the definition).  The road regs refer to "pedal cycles" and "other vehicles" a few times as well confirming that bicycles are vehicles.  The method of power (ie human, donkey, motorised or electric) has no bearing on the definition. 

 

Pedestrians have no right to be on the road at any time in terms of road regs, except at designated crossing points ie pedestrian crossings and traffic intersections.  Obviously this is not always practical, but the notion that a pedestrian has a right is incorrect.

 

As for the original debate about running traffic lights, I believe that if you want to stop at lights because of how motorists will perceive you, you are wasting your time.  Motorists do not want cyclists on the road - their perception is already there and a few guys stopping at a traffic light will make no difference.  Stop at traffic lights because it is the safest thing to do.  If it is not the safest action then go through the traffic light. 

[Wonder Woman]

Personally even if I'm driving late at night or early mornings I might stop at a red robot and then proceed cautiously if there is no traffic.

 

In South Africa we are more likely to be hi-jacked. So I feel that if you have robots slow down and make sure there is nothing and if it is safe go. it seems a bit stupid standing there for no reason and being a target for mugging. But this is ONLY for early mornings on the bike. On weekends I stop at robots.

 

To my knowledge a pedestrain has no right to walk on the road except for crossing at robots and set crossing points. We as cyclists however have a right to be on the road, so therefore must be treated as a vehicle I would think.

 

[NC_lurker]

Personally I think it's a respect issue. If you want other road users to respect your right to be there, then respect the rules of the road. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

It's simple, if the light is red, stop.

Oh and before we start ranting on how motorists don't respect cyclists, if you want respect, you've gotta earn it first.

 

I'm afraid CycleLab's official spokesperson needs to have a think about his statement. Any club with the sort of exposure that they enjoy should be "man" enough to police their members correctly and to advocate adhering to the rules of the road AT ALL TIMES.

 

Anyway, having to stop at red lights allows you to do a short interval once the light goes green, consider it additional training.

[shaunh]

Personally I think it's a respect issue. If you want other road users to respect your right to be there, then respect the rules of the road. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

It's simple, if the light is red, stop.

Oh and before we start ranting on how motorists don't respect cyclists, if you want respect, you've gotta earn it first.

 

[/quote']

 

Well put Lurker!!!

[Kiwi]

Kiwi' date=' do you hit brakes down Sandton Drive to make sure you don't break the 70kph limit?

No club or club captain condones breaking the law. However, the majority of club members are adults that should have a decent level of responsibility as well as a desire to live a long, happy life, so are highly unlikely to purposefully break the law AND risk death.

Judging by how unhappy you were after your ride this morning, I assume it's unlikely you'll ride with the Engen group again. However, if you do, then ride near the front (anyone is allowed to ride there) and you will notice  that there is a fairly high level of responsibility regarding the safe of unsafe conditions at red lights. Bonus: More people will also notice what cranks you have if you ride at the front.

Like Andrew says, it's when the bunch sizes are so big that potential problems can arise. But if you're in the second half of a huge pack and see the light changing to red, it's your own decision to keep riding through regardless of whether there may be vehicles from either side.

In seven years of riding regularly with the Engen group (at least 600 times), I have never seen one incident at a red light where a vehicle has ploughed into the pack.

Most of the riders hit by cars are riding alone or with one or two others and their lack of visibility counts against them. These also usually happen after 7am when the traffic volume is growing. The Engen ride is usually over by 6.45am and most are home by 7am.

I am in no way condoning breaking the law, but if I was to stop at every red light on the Engen group ride, I would get home 20-odd minutes later and be just as grumpy as you were today. And I don't want that.

Note: My personal opinion does not necessarily reflect that of any publication I work for (except maybe those sex tips I wrote once for FHM a few years back...)

[/quote']

 

I didn't/don't ride with the Engen guys, My ride crosses theirs. AND of course you are safe in a big group as it's much more visible, saftey in numbers and all that.

 

The peeved motorists don't take their frustration out on groups. They wait until they pass the guys (like me) that train on their own due to whatever circumstances they have.

[Wonder Woman]

Linnega I have to agree with you, safety first and your decision should then be the right one, whether to stop or go!!

[ewep]

 

 

Ewep - the Metro cop you spoke to is a moron.

 

He might be a moron, but have you ever tried to tell a cop that?  They ARE the law, period.  And remember, (have to say this in Afrikaans, someone please translate this) die bewyslas l? by JOU.  Hulle is altyd 2 en meer!

ewep2007-11-07 03:02:20

[Reg Lizard]

I will gladly pay license fees for my bike. Lets see, taking into consideration that a car weighs around 1250kg's divided by R300 (fees per year) =R4.16 per kg. Bicycle weighs 7.5kg X R4.16 =R31.25 per year.

But then I want the same privileges as a motor vehicle, like riding in the middle of the lane which I choose to ride in at the speed that I want to.

[linnega]

With all due respect (pun intended), thats garbage.  Motorists do not and will not respect cyclists because our mere presence is inconvenient because roads are not designed with all vehicles in mind.  You cannot change that by your actions.  I do agree that you need to earn respect, and as soon as motorists as a group begin to earn my respect they may start to receive it.

 

WW - you have it back to front.  Pedal cycles are vehicles and therefore have a right to the road.

[shaunh]

But then I want the same privileges as a motor vehicle' date=' like riding in the middle of the lane which I choose to ride in at the speed that I want to.

[/quote']

 

For you, we will reserve the fast lane on the N12

[linnega]

Ewep - the Metro cop you spoke to is a moron.

He might be a moron' date=' but have you ever tried to tell a cop that?  They ARE the law, period.  And remember, (have to say this in Afrikaans, someone please translate this) die bewyslas l? by JOU.  Hulle is altyd 2 en meer!
[/quote']

Honestly, I have done so a few times.  Mostly to friends that are not too much bigger than me, but also to cops that don't wear seatbelts, run red lights or speed in their killing machines.  Often get a chance to chat about the example they are setting and people whose lives they put at risk when I am waiting for a traffic light to go green.

[linnega]

....then I want the same privileges as a motor vehicle' date=' like riding in the middle of the lane which I choose to ride in at the speed that I want to.

[/quote']

Actually you already have that right per the road regs.

[Wonder Woman]

 

WW - you have it back to front.  Pedal cycles are vehicles and therefore have a right to the road.

 

Sorry, you make more sense

 

 

 

[ewep]

 

Honestly' date=' I have done so a few times.  Mostly to friends that are not too much bigger than me, but also to cops that don't wear seatbelts, run red lights or speed in their killing machines.  Often get a chance to chat about the example they are setting and people whose lives they put at risk when I am waiting for a traffic light to go green.

[/quote']

 

Clearly not in Jhb!!!!  YOU will be closed down for quite a while.