GrumpyOldGuy

Opening this thread upset me, I think there needs to be a sort of disclaimer. Nevertheless, there is a special kind of hell that awaits people like this.

I understand what you are saying, but its defeatist, if everyone takes the attitude of "I dont want this legislation because nothing will be enforced or happen anyway" we will never get anywhere. People need rules to function in society, unfortunately we dont live in a bubble, and rules and laws guide society and your day to day life, you may not agree with them or see them as silly, but rest assured someone else will have a different view and think they are great, so Yes, it may not get enforced everyday and every time you go cycle, but somewhere, someday somehow the rule will get enforced and that day may just save your life.

But likewise eddy your chances of getting any kind of prosecution against an errant cyclist is also zero. It works both ways mate, you just cant have one side of the coin. Cyclists have zero accountability on the road, ZERO,......... motorists at least have some form of accountability, even if its not all that well enforced.

I agree with you somewhat LL, and as has been rehashed a million times mutual respect and courtesy is essential, not just when on the road or bike but for basic human interaction everyday, without it we are dead in the water as it were. However there is more to the licensing issue as well, its not just about having a little disk somewhere its about accountability and taking responsibility for ones actions. As we all know 40 years ago licensing a bike was mandatory, and because of this requirement bikes were written into the road rules (ie) bikes are allowed to travel on roads. However over the years the licensing fell by the way side, but the rules were never changed. So in effect we have a loop hole in the system which is exploited by everyone, cyclists exploit the fact they have no accountability on the road legally so they jump lights, stop streets etc, the traffic police have no way of enforcing the law on a cyclist as they have no record of the vehicle (bike) so they dont bother, and the motorist sees the cyclist as someone who is not paying to use his vehicle on a public road, so he is antagonized by this fact and is not inclined to give lee way. By changing the law (ie) Licensing cycles, we effectively eliminate all issues, the cyclist is now accountable as any other road user, the authorities have a mechanism to enforce the law on errant cyclists and the motorist knows that you as a cyclist has paid your dues to use the public road. Its not acceptable to use the argument I pay a license for my car, the fact is, you are not driving your car when cycling, if we want to be treated as other road vehicle's then it stands to reason we need to be accountable as is any other vehicle on the road, and pay the due amount for use of that facility. The problem in SA is we like to live a very loose sort of lifestyle, we dont like authority and people tracking us down to enforce the law, we like to live as we see fit and see any authority as a sort of nanny environment. However like here, we scream blue murder when rules are not obeyed, we demand first world standards like safe roads, safe houses, low crime, a different driver attitude, a different cyclist attitude, we point to first world countries and say look at that environment how nice it is, but we forget those citizens accept the accountability and responsibility of the regulations, they adhere to the rule of law and dont look for ways to evade it, so yeah, we want the nice safe lifestyle but we dont want the responsibility and accountability that go's with that. Until that fundamental mindset changes, nothing else will either.

Sure, but now we are looking at the SA mentality of evading issues they dont agree with. In most first world countries people accept laws as a pre requisite to their been able to partake in that activity and abide by those laws, here regrettably, we look for ways to evade them.

I dont think that would be an issue. It need not be done by a municipal office, like car licenses, a post office could do it very easily.

- Doubt it, thin aluminium,like a dog tag. Details were sort of embossed on the tag by those swipe machines over a plate.

Back in the days when I was a kid we had to buy little steel discs at the local municipality before you could ride on the road which was fastened to your seat post and was valid for a year. There was only basic particulars like dates, and "bicycle license" but it was more an income gathering mechanism than anything else, today it would not be difficult to have your name and contact details etc on the disc and linked to a registrar etc - actually in some states in the USA they already do so, New York been one, its illegal and you will get fined if you ride on the road without a bicycle license. .......but again it needs policing to be effective, I dont think we have the will to do so here unfortunately.

I have always liked Paolo.

Indeed, of course there are exceptions to the rule but in general they are just doing a days work, and, like you and me, would like to finish off the day with as little drama as possible. I cycle at the same time on much the same route daily, hence I see many familiar faces in cars doing like wise, a few weeks back I saw a taxi wanting to turn, I had right of way but I was in no hurry so I waved him through. A few days later I was travelling up the same road and was in the lane waiting to turn when I saw the same taxi pull up in front of me and with a big grin, waved me through - look for the best in people, theres a lot of good out there.

Not too many I would say, the pro peleton at that level is too small. However I agree, if there were enormous numbers of clean riders in the day it was up to them to call BS on the dopers and report them, if there were sufficient numbers they could feel secure in doing so, but as far as I know that never happened which leads me to believe they were an infintismal minority, if any.

Yeah, I find the same, and I cycle and run daily amongst taxi's, trucks and some of the most horrendous traffic in JHB and I rarely have issues. I believe if you treat others the way you would like to be treated, they will return the favor, people are not too different anywhere you go and even if we like to paint many with the same brush, few will get up in the morning and say I feel like driving into a cyclist / runner / pedestrian today,... but sadly, we are human and fallible, we lose concentration, we think of other things and we make mistakes, it happens to all of us, not one person here or elsewhere can say otherwise.

No body was murdered mrbaker. That is simply fanning the fires of hysteria, as tragic as it was, it remains an accident until a judicial court says otherwise.

Indeed, the truth is at this point its an unknown but the hysterical blame game needs to stop. From what I see the driver has complied fully with the authorities, he stopped and waited for the police and made a statement as did others. I understand charges will be laid and later a court will decide the outcome, as tragic as it is, accidents are no respecter of status, they happen to everyone, young and old, rich and poor, famous or just ordinary, everyday is a gift.

Where do you get this information.? Kindly point me to any judicial inquiry that has been done which proves that the driver was incompetent. I have heard no official report that says the driver was to blame for the accident. So far this has been only speculation. It may be true, but right now its pure speculation and needs to be stopped.

Who was murdered.?

I tend to agree, to have denied for so long and then when faced with his current situation to suddenly make an about turn and say "Yeah I lied" wouldn't do much for what little credibility he still has. I am not sure he would risk that.

Oh my...........................called Nespresso Sandton today as I wanted some more nut blends and heard the dreaded words, "Sorry all sold out"! All of a sudden I have an urge for a coconut blend and guess what, ....................!

Yeah, agreed, unlikely he will contest it, frankly I dont think he could win if he did, so he will make an out of court settlement. The problem as I see it though is as Bonus says, it could set a precedent for others to follow, but this case had different merits which meant he couldn't really win, other issues may not be so watertight. .......however the American legal system is monumentally expensive, fighting two or three cases in a New York court could cost two / three million per case, theoretically he could go bankrupt just fighting his cases.!

Oh, okay. its worth it though, they also track your purchases so if you get a bit lost (has happened to me on a coffee low) and forget what you like, they just look up your purchases and tell you what blends you buy most of - but I guess it also tells them which blends are not selling.

I thought everyone who buys a machine is registered on the club? Its actually quite nice, they send you updates on new blends, specials, tasting evenings (I went to one in November, was quite fun) and so on. Only get a mail once a month or so, not a big issue.

Aaah - there ya go. Number 2 is also quite astounding,........ but I could live there.!

Incredible photo, but I am curious, surely it has to be photo shopped ............. I cant see anyway into the house and the split flow of water over the gable window's doesn't make sense - the water cant just flow away from the wall like that.

- Oh the irony of it.!

Yes, R4999.00 - I think most of them are sticking to the suggested price now demand is still good, but I anticipate some specials if stock is sitting after Christmas.