MDW

Chubba I want to point out one thing to you, just so you are aware. 32Gi retailers purchase directly from 32Gi and on sell to the public. All retailers get out product at exactly the same price. There is no middle man at all. So now you know the retailer determines their own price. Now some retailers you need to look at where they are situated and if they are in an expensive centre say, then you should know there margins will be higher to cover costs, some of the stores drop the price to try for volume sales and work off a lower margin. The thing is its not the distribution chain here its the retailer deciding how best to sell the product in his own store. At 32Gi we make a recommended retail price on the product, some of the retailers listen to us, some dont at all. Hope this helps later Me

Ok, this is such a great topic, I needed to make a contribution. Firstly guys, training and racing on water alone mmmmmm, quite a debate. So let me say this, because there is so so so much to consider and most of how or what you do really depends on what your goals are. Firstly yes, it is correct, and I fully support the fact that as athletes or endurance athletes, they really need to learn how to use their fat stores far more efficiently, I am a big advocate of that, many cyclists are far far to dependent on high sugar based products and actually fail to see that they are not letting their bodies utilize what they were born with, readily available energy. How is it that a bushman or aborigine can run hundreds of kilometers across a desert on water, simple they are extremely efficient at using their fat stores. We are so used to filling up our systems with readily available glucose the brain wont for a second take the long route, it will go with whats there, and most athletes will not take it all up actually gaining weight in the end, and entering the emotional roller coaster ride of the feel good feel bad syndrome. OK, so let me get into a different aspect here. How do we really burn fat. I had someone writing to me the other day telling me that he likes to train on an empty stomach as fat burn is at its highest when he wakes up in the morning, YES, but metabolic rate is at its lowest. So firstly I would like to say this is actually NOT a great idea. Its a fallacy that you will lose more weight or burn more fat if you go and train on an empty stomach, actually the opposite if you start fuelling yourself properly before, through and after you will actually land up burning off more calories through the day then training on an empty stomach. Secondly, because your blood glucose levels will be more balanced you wont run the risk of a hypoglycemic stage and eating junk because u feel low or think u deserve it. Another thing you need to consider, is that training on empty which = water as well, will cause glycogen depletion, no doubt. By the way I would just like to point out that an energy drink or appropriate fuel is there to SPARE the glycogen. There are two ways to spare glycogen fat store tapping without a doubt the most efficient, and then there is the less efficient roller coaster ride of sugar overload. So yes training on water will obviously get you to tap some fat, and your glycogen stores alone could probably see you for 90 minutes of hard riding. However, after the ride, you wont feel great, you can go hypoglycemic and you run the risk of eating incorrectly the rest of the day. More so, if you are planning to do a back to back work out this is where you will suffer the most. Glycogen is your fuel source, when its depleted it needs to be replenished, but if you deplete it totally u aint going to replenish it very quickly either and if you had to cycle the following day believe me you are going to feel real flat, and if you have a little strength at the start then somewhere along the line u will run your glycogen empty. I had a customer do a 4 day MTB stage race recently, day 1 he was leading, day to he was sitting in 4th postion, 2nd day he moved down 3rd day he suffered and 4th day he was finished. WHY? Simple he never fuelled himself sufficiently after the event to replenish his glycogen. OK so enough stories back to water fuelling: Yes, its a fact when you train on water you will tap your fat stores for energy, BUT only and only if you ride at the correct intensity. You see lipolysis as its called can only work when the body has time to convert fat into muscle fuel, BUT up the intensity and the pace, and there is no ways this will work, your body will need readily available fuel as lipolysis is too long a process. This comes straight from your glycogen stores and you will need some real fast glucose to keep your brain from shutting off. The other thing is that when you do this you deplete your glycogen totally and its why I told the story above, when is your next workout, you need to plan around this when you are going to do this. I certainly believe that training your body to use its fat stores more efficiently is important but you can also do this if you eat low GI pre-training meals and fuel during the event with food that wont spike your insulin levels, ie: send you into a hyperglycemic space. You will spare your glycogen and you will feel far more stable for the day. so my recommendation is Low GI pre-training meal definitely, and then water. If you are going on longer ride 3 hours up take some fuel make sure its appropriate and not an overkill. You will be the better for it. OK so on to calories burned in an hour I see some people say I burn off 1000 an hour and need to take in 1000 an hour, NO WAYS. Firstly lets say an athlete burns off between 750 and 1200 calories and hour depending on intensity and some other factors. Its a fact and been proven that the most calories a Tour de France rider can absorb per an hour is 500, and that is huge. You see we all have a specific gastric emptying rate and you can only absorb so much during exercise. Dr Alan Limm of Team Radioshack will tell you his athletes will take in around 350 - 400 calories an hour but for some that is even too much. You glycogen stores alone hold in muscle glycogen 1800 - 2500 calories and liver glycogen 400-800 calories so when totally topped up of course around 3000 or so. Thats readily available fuel the key is to try and spare it with a combination of endogenous and exogenous sources, ie: fat burn to start, like a pro rider cruising in the peleton at 40km/h :-) at least until the attacks start and that is the time to take in the glucose, but really glycogen feed will be the key. If you exceed the gastric emptying rate, you WILL suffer, cramps, nausea and more. Its a common cause of these issues. As an endurance triathlete, I train mostly twice a day, if I trained on water only, I would deplete my glycogen stores, I would eat lovely sugar during the day because I would feel quite low and then have a shocking low quality workout later if I even feel like it. OK one more thing to consider. Electrolytes, ie: proper hydration. If you go on water alone and do not have any electrolyte replenishment well that is simply plain ridiculous, because you will suffer terribly. Water alone dilutes your electrolyte levels, and you need to replenish, so remember time, distance and intensity are really key, a water session should be kept under 2 hours for sure, and if you do it then ensure to really eat correctly afterwards. The basics of burning fat if you really want to: Avoid high sugar foods Complex Carbs should be eaten Easily digestible proteins Stimulant reduction Good luck all :-) later Me

Hi Wil6, just to explain how carbo loading works, firstly understand when you load up your glycogen stores, glycogen does have weight so if you dont gain weight before an event it means most likely you have not loaded your glycogen. Secondly, when you eat for carbo loading you need to ensure the weight you are carrying is glycogen weight, and not excessive water and fat weight which was gained by over eating or taking in the incorrect foods. If you are going to carbo load naturally ensure you eat complex carbs which are predominantly low GI. Also ensure after a workout you take in a glycogen replenishment drink which should be a combination of high GI and protein. A trick we all do is a complex carb with a load of caffeine it can help speed up glycogen replenishment by up to 60% faster. Ok with that all said, white pasta or rye paste, white rice or quinoa, brown rice or wild rice, i think you get the picture make the wise carbo loading choices. Ok as for 32Gi for carbo loading, its not an overkill taking in 2 to 3 bottles a day. Firstly its very slow digesting and so you wont gain the unnecessary weight by loading up on it, secondly it assists in water intake which will get your hydration levels up for an event. Last week was my 17th 70.3, not in SA overseas, rated hardest on the globe. Anyway,2 days of carbo loading, and proper eating avoiding sugar and caffeine the week before, saw my energy levels loaded and balanced for the race. I felt good but was not overly heavy. My glycogen weight is usually 700grams - 900grams additional weight, I find it sufficient. Also for an event that is less than 3 hours, I never load up, if you eat consistently well, before, during and after training you should keep your glycogen stores balanced and topped up. Completely loaded you should see around 2000 calories of muscle glycogen and +-500 calories of liver glyocgen, in laymans terms I can do a hard 1.5 - 2 hour time trial on glycogen alone, as long as I take in a decent pre-training meal in order to keep my brain glucose levels up. Remember 40% of glucose feed is to keep the brain functioning as well. Anyway maybe some info overload, but you need to take a lot into consideration, and you also need to know your body well. all the best M

Neurobion is actually a Vitamin B1,6 and 12 so with a compex which contains the Riboflavin etc u get a nice pick me up for your body. Any Dis-Chem nurse can administer it and the cost is around R80 or so

I have been through phases like that as well. Adrenal fatigue is an issue and yes it can impact your heart rate significantly a lot of people actually dont realize that. If you really want to check if thats the case, if you know your resting heart rate, when you wake up each morning and take it, under fatigued conditions you will actually notice it to be significantly higher. Some tips on trying to curb fatigue and dealing with work related stress at the same time is really around nutrition and sleep. Its important to eat a proper recovery meal after a workout, when I say recovery I talk of 3 things: Muscle Recovery - A decent protein shake 10/90 (maltodextrin / Protein isolate combo) I would go with a soya based, but each has their preference, this needs to come in within 15 minutes of finishing your workout. Re-hydration - fluid, ensure you hydrate during and after the workout, u need to put in the liquid u lost, water is best, if u feeling flat a isotonic drink will help. Glycogen Recovery - decent breakfast if after morning workout. I usually have a bowl of oats, with 3-4 types of fruit, low fat yoghurt and seeds mixed in. To fight stress and fatigue as well, because it can also severely impact your immune system and allow illness to come in, especially if your interferon levels drop, I actually go for a neurobian injection once a month, and sometimes I combine it with a Vit B Complex, I find it helps. I also take in a decent multivitamin with my morning meal just to provide some balance of elements, I use Veridian, its expensive but its the best :-), and no i dont work or am related to them, I just know their quality is really at the top of the list they only use natural organic ingredients. As for mental focus, I would stick to the non-stimulant drinks, I eat fruit to provide my mental focus during the day, apples, apricots, dried mango, pears, etc etc, they provide a slower release of glucose and more mental focus, the problem with coffee is its too up and down and eventually u hit the mental wall. I just edited because I forgot to mention something very important, Sleep Sleep Sleep listen to your body, if you are battling to fall asleep at night it can mean fatigue, then u require some rest time to get back on track. Remember training is about quality workouts, listen to your body if u dont feel like training and not passionate about getting on the bike in the morning, then rather miss the workout take it easy and wait until you are really craving it. You will be the better off. Also key times to be asleep at night to receive proper hormone release is proven to be between 11 and 1am, and 4-5am, yes i know us cyclists get up early, but we cannot do this every single day or we will pay the price, sleep is still king ;-). Hope this helps all the best Mark

COFFEE - THE TRUTH :-) I love coffee too, but in all honesty there are so many things to consider when taking in a cup. Firstly instant coffee is really bad for you, if you are going to have coffee rather go for a bean brew. Secondly coffee does not spike your sugar levels at all, BUT, it gives you an adrenalin rush, that feel good kick feeling to the brain, and this is because coffee is a stimulant, nothing less. So is coffee good or bad? Well it has its benefits thats to say that caffeine does have certain benefits. Caffeine obviously assists in keeping you focussed and alert, however the feel good from this is short lived. Its why during a race a caffeine gel or any form of caffeine should only be take in towards the very end, last 30-40 minutes or so. Caffeine obviously does raise the heart rate, so yes it can assist with calorie burn by keeping it up. In actual fact a lot of body builders that want to enhance fat burn during exercise will tend to take in a strong cup of black coffee 20 minutes before they start training, in order to enable fat burn from the onset, its a little trick they use. In endurance caffeine plays a great role in sparing glycogen stores by up to 50%, beleive it ;-). However its not so simple. You will need to be pretty much caffeine intolerant for this to work properly, ie: no coffee or caffeine for 7 days before your event, and you will need to ingest the caffeine approximately 1mg per a kg of body weight 3-4 hours before the event, not close to the event at all, otherwise it dont work and you will land up dehydrating and probably stomach irritability. Problem is in SA I cant find a race that starts late enough to do this ha ha, no ways I am going to wake up at midnight to start my caffeine loading, besides the events here specifically cycling events are really not long enough anyway, but for a real endurance event if it started at 10-11am it would be worth considering. Now another benefit of coffee :-), glycogen replenishment, did you know if you finish a hard workout, and want to replenish your glycogen stores 60% faster than usual, take in caffeine with a complex carbohydrate such as raw oats breakfast and it works like a bomb, especially brilliant for stage racing, and back to back workouts, its a fact. Now I have said a lot on the pro's of coffee ie: caffeine, however here are the cons. Take coffee with sugar and you are totally wasting your time, this it what will play with your mental rush as well as your glucose levels and basically when you mix caffeine with a high GI substance such as sugar, the caffeine does the opposite of burn it has the tendency to store the glucose as fat, :-), yip, so all you coffee lovers with sugar in the coffee, not a chance that has a benefit its the biggest weight gainer. Now fructose and xylitol are better, but really guys coffee is best in its natural state. OK, so what about coffee in its natural state. Are there cons. YES of course, it raises your heart rate, gives you an adrenalin rush, and then leaves you craving more, people sometimes tend to over do it with the coffee and then they get into a cycle of 3-4 cups a day upwards. This is not a health hazard, as much as you think it does not affect you it does and in a real bad way. With time, sleeping disorders, lack of stability and focus, potential blood pressure, nervous system and or hypertension disorders are all waiting to happen. Why do this to yourself it baffles my mind. Aside from this for every cup of black coffee you drink 2 glasses of water are required to counteract the dehydration properties the caffeine helps provide, which of course is not where you want to be, as much as coffee is water with caffeine, its does not work that way. You need to hydrate yourself far more when taking in the stimulant. Advice: Coffee who does not love it? Its a great tasting feel good drink, but take it in wisely, if you are drinking it excessively, try and limit yourself to down to 1 cup per a day, medical experts advise 5 a week to be a cut off point from a health perspective. Rather take in the coffee and enjoy it knowing you are using it as a benefit and not to your detriment. If you are looking for alternatives rather try the herbal teas that are available, and get used to them, the ones I recommend, are Yerba Mate - different polyphenols to the normal green teas, a natural immune booster and a great fat burner :-) Green Tea Rooibos Tea Cacoa Tea Honeybush mix match, enjoy and remember put your health first. Later M

Best place is Henlie on Klip, the lake there rocks best water for open water swimming :-)

I could not sleep lying down on any side for the first 4 weeks, had sleep sitting up, sneezing and coughing are an absolute pain, but nothing we can do just go through the motions, congrats on giving up the smoking its a tough one but now that u have taken the step keep up the good work.

Hey Chris I know how you feel was taken down in 94.7 I have 23 fractures and cracks across 8 ribs :-(,its been a hell of a 6 weeks, I took 10 days off and then hit the pool and the bike I have not managed to run at all, but started again this week and its coming back together again. The doc says the fall was so hard it will take 3 more months before that tightness disappears completely, anyway recover well. By the way as far as the weight goes my race weight is usually around 67-68kg, after 3 weeks of not much training at all, I was down to 67 and stayed there, muscle mass drop, my body fat stayed constant, but I kept my nutrition solid throughout, although when u r down and out a chocolate can sometimes look good :-). later M

It's not so simple saying when u sleep u convert calories into fat, the thing is folks you burn calories while you are sleeping and depending on the kind of pre sleep meals you have you can burn off quite a bit. The way you can tell if you are eating decently is when you wake up in the morning you should fee th following 1. Energetic 2. Appetitie you should feel like eating 3. Feel good If you actually sleep less than required that can also lead to weight gain there are key hours when one should be asleep in order to take advantage of certain hormone release miss those and it's problematic with time. If you don't feel the 3 mentioned above re think your diet and lifestyle As for the family time great to hear that it's so Important :-)

Thry and strike more mid foot, slow your runs down by 15-30 seconds per kilometre, do at least 4 runs a week with an average distance and one mid distance. I would obviously advise Vibrams or Nike Free's and suggest But ultimately this will only have you conditioned by Iron Man next year. Don forget Inov-8 shoes they are brilliant for adapting to barefoot running and guide you into a proper forefoot strike which is where u want to be :-) they rock those shoes.

I have to say one very important thing here, you seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on training for weight loss but the key is not in the training at all, it is all I'm your nutrition, it's easy to drop weight and body fat just by watching what you put in your tank but over doing it on the training side u can land up in moee trouble than it's worth. If I was you I would speak to a nutrition expert specifically in the field of sports can get into a decent balanced lifestyle. I would love to helpl but I just cannot commit right now as I am abroad for a month from next week and loads of stuff to tick off my lists All the best M

Something I need to add on the 32Gi a flavourless neutral version has been released if u don't like a sweet taste. Also just on the pricing remember a single serving if 32Gi guarantees at least 2 hours of energy. You should equate servings to how many hours of energy it provides as that gives u a more accurate way to measure, remember hydration and energy provision are separate issues. As some people have said they can get by on less or more how much u dilute any energy drink with is usually a standard but some go with more water and some with less it all depends on the individual ;-).

Not actually true Sean most stains come from non-natural colorants or high acidity in a drink, most powder drinks require no preservatives at all as the shelf in powder form does not require it

Listen I have plenty of Clients who could shock anyone sometimes I use shock treatment to wake them up as they r literally killing themselves and their children send it anything I can do to help u all the best M

Covie mail me your current diet day in and out and pre training and post training meals and liquid consumption the works let me look at it I will sort it out for u :-)

Not eating leads to body fat gain, you put yourself into starvation mode your body will store more fat in a defence mechanism and your weight might drop a little but don't be fooled into thinking u r in good shape as fat weighs less than muscle and eventually with age and time disorders develop rather eat frequently mot eating is the worst thing u can do ;-) also something I wanted to mention on an earlier post u don't need to exercise to burn calories. You are burning calories constantly even when u sleep, your body shape is food related mainly meaning eating the a little less calories than u burn off. However if you are a cyclist mmmm you need to eat more of course for fuel and recovery but the problem with most cyclists these days is exercise is an excuse to eat more than u actually deserve. I often see groups on a 3 to 4 hour ride stopping at the local Engen bar ones and cokes and then Mugg and Bean afterwards. You will never burn that off be smart about it ;-)

I was reading some of the earlier posts on appetite suppresants, thermogenics, water diets etc etc come on guys get real is all this #$%$<$ worth risking your health for, keeping in shape is not difficult if you do it right. What you eat is the key, a the other stuff can possibly do harm if u r not careful re-think the cleverly marketed food shapers they all pose significant health risks in one form or another.

Some advice here from a pro :-) Firstly if u have hunger cravings it means your diet is not correct your not balancing your energy levels properly and doing something wrong it needs to be seriously looked at. Secondly this is a percentages game I eat between 50 to 60 meals a week if I have a cheat meal or craving 5 times a week so it dowse nothing as 99% of the time my diet is spot on but it I only ate 20 or so meals a week and had some cheat meals 5 times a week well there goes 20% of my diet. The other thing is tha when u do have a hunger craving u need to understand why it happened what did u eat before that and then most importantly make the right food choice to get rid of it. There are plenty of healthy snack options the problem is if you are not prepared for it you going to land up n trouble. Finally if u r feeling that your diet is a sacrifice ie: not so enjoyable then you are eating incorrectly and need to re look at the nutrition. Keeping a lean body and your energy levels stable is a lifetime commitement a nutrition program that is sustainable for life. There are no quick fixes at all natural will cure all as an example Jungle or Bokomo oats is actually higher in sugar due to the process it goes through but eat raw rolled oats and Its a different story :-) remember smart food choices and if u not sure ask, also some natural ways to enhance fat burn ;-) All the best Mark

Hi Guys I saw this and thought to jump in for some assistance. I feel I can provide some help as Jan will be my 17th 70.3 :-), but wont be in East London will be racing overseas on the 21st. Ok so again the race is very time dependent, different for a guy doing sub 4:30 to a guy doing 7 hours, lets forget about supplements on the day and focus first on the days leading up to the event. The week before try to keep your caffeine content to a minimum, keep sugar to a minimum, try to eat more complex carbs, easily digestible proteins, less acidic and spicy stuff, you want to ensure you maximize glycogen stores without gaining excessive unnecessary weight, keep your energy levels up and balanced and remain properly hydrated. So plenty of liquid during the days, nice frequent eating 6-7 meals a day, plenty of fruits and veggies, no need to overdo any meals. You can use a drink to carbo load, I would only do this on a 70.3 about 2-3 days before the event. I use 32Gi of course, but its your choice. 2 nights before and the day before the event are where your meal become most important, no need to stress on the night before meal. So again, dont over do it and over eat. Just be comfortable, again, balanced carb meal, complex carbs are best, meaning quinoa, wild rice, lentil rice, rye pasta etc. Easily digestible proteins as red meat takes a good solid 48 hours to process, I would stick to the chicken, turkey and fish proteins, even eggs. Remember to hydrate nicely the days before. Night before dont eat a ridiculously large meal and expect to give yourself energy, you want to sleep comfortable the night before not feel like a bloated hot air balloon rolling tossing and turning in bed. Eat a nice simple meal, balanced and just feel comfortable you will feed in the morning again. Morning before the race, there are a few options, low GI is key here, you want to load your stores and give yourself a slow sustainable energy release, but dont over do it, you still want to feel comfortable in the swim not have your food floating around in your belly making u suffer for overeating. My favourite meals are: 2 Slices of Low GI toast, with Jam and Sugar Free Peanut butter, or honey. Oats with half banana and some berries Pronutro Future Life dont take in any Kellogs products, or Wheat Bix etc, they are higher in sugar and you can rest assured a high fibre cereal will get you running to the loo, this can be avoided. Also stay away from milk products if slightly lactose again it impacts the digestive system negatively, no need for discomfort :-). I take 32Gi chews and bottles of 32Gi with me for the race, I always take a high GI gel as a backup in case I hit a flat, in my case the races are anywhere between 4:20 to 5:20 depending on the type of race and conditions. The longer events I cater for differently, remember in a 70.3 the feed time is the bike :-). No where else only the bike, you also want to make sure you feed yourself accordingly so that when you go onto the run you are not uncomfortable so eating periods and frequency and type of foods are important. So this is what I recommend. In transition setup and getting ready keep a low GI energy drink with you just to sip on, or low GI food, such as 32Gi chews, nothing over the top to fill the stomach up too negatively. One thing I want to say is in previous posts there was mention of redlining, in a 70.3 or Ironman you dont redline u race in a comfortable pace zone, or you going to blow. You save your real pushes and surges right for the end, meaning only on the run, unless you r sure you can push hard on the bike and still hold a great run leg. I tend to sip on 32Gi in the transition zone, I hate too much liquid before a race so I keep my water intake to a minimum, I actually make a concentrate. I have a weak bladder. I eat sometimes a few chews depending on how close I am to the race start, but dont eat at all 30-45minutes prior. On my bike 32Gi and Food. My food is generally just chews, I dont like meals, in the case of a 6-7 hour event, you need to up that calorie intake, throw in some oat cookies, maybe a peanut butter sandwich, but remember to break it down into smaller portions and eat it over a period of time, dont eat too much at once. The body cannot digest as easily, while exercising. Keep hydrated, but dont over-hydrate, its one of the biggest mistakes I see, over-hydration can lead to terrible discomfort and nausea. Listen to your body and drink when you require it, remember under hot conditions you lose more water, so you up your liquid intake. Ensure you drink a electrolyte drink, NOT just plain water, if you dont take in electrolytes u will land up feeling terrible especially over that period of time. Most energy drinks are iso or hypo tonic. Again in my case 32Gi is my energy drink and I use it throughout. I start to up my GI intake as I get closer to the run and take in more chews. Onto the run, plenty of water tables etc on route, I avoid water i just use it for pouring over my head, I tend to take a small bottle of 32Gi on the run, and use it for the first 30minutes or so, then I toss it and last 45 I give myself some more rocket fuel, a little sugar, sometimes in the form of sips of coke. I ensure though that the spike will carry me to the finish. Remember if you do take in a gel, or a spiking product, you cannot stop taking it in, it means you need to be able to feed yourself constantly and not miss a feed in the alloted spike time, because if you do miss you will feel terrible and hit a fatigue zone. So remember if you take a gel, then depending on the gel, every 30-40 minutes u will need another one. Hope this helps, its pretty generic, but something I have been doing for a long time, and I find it works very well. all the best M

Just so you guys know this is what the new chews look like, they r the bomb ;-)

I re-conned the route, I wanted to stay in the front through town as I was worried about the narrow roads and steep hills being at the back, but as you say being 3rd wheel, only 2 possible guys could have gone down in front of me only 2 out of the entire bunch, and number turns around, I swear I thought I was dreaming I could not believe what was unfolding in front of me, what rider in second wheel turns around to look at the peleton, especially since we had just got onto the highway mmmmmmmm, very very questionable riding.

Maybe they will get caught but its dangerous and the damage gets done in the mean time, I never really thought much about it until I got seriously hurt, then it made me think wait a minute something is not right here, and something needs to be done.

Grumpy, I need to say something related to this. In sunday I raced licensed vets VB, I was leading the bunch for the first 3km or so and 2 guys came past me so I was sitting 3rd wheel. The guy in front of me turned around to look what was happening behind him ????????????????????/ WTF, he wheel touched number 1 and went down bringing me and 11 others down, I was taken to hospital in an ambulance with multiple cracked and fractured ribs. WHAT KIND OF EXPERIENCED CYCLIST TURNS AROUND TO LOOK AT THE PELETON WHEN HIS IS PULLING SECOND WHEEL. He obviously should never have been in our bunch and I am wondering where he came from? Could it be one of the jumpers who should not be there, yes I am angry and rightly so, because something like that should never happen, not when you racing licensed. Anyway, my 2 cents worth, think i will stick to triathlon, nice gap and no way to seed :-).

@Woofie the neutral flavour is being launched soon i will keep you posted just waiting for our graphic designer to complete the packaging @Topwine I promise Woofie is not sponsored and actually was a sceptic like you to start if u kept up to date with the threads u will see I offered the first 10 people to respond a chance to try our neutral flavour sachets were sent to all 10 the neutral is a secret recipe ;-) sure to spoil the user, it can also be used as a mix with existing flavours.