Thor Buttox

I have popped in and out of this site for a good few years now, and I have never seen a thread like this. I will try to be relentlessly logical so I don't resort to melodrama and histrionics. The are two types of citizens: a) law-abiding b) law-breaking (it doesn't matter which law, let's assume red light jumping for the sake of argument) The purpose of the law to is protect the rights of the abiders from the actions of the breakers. As an example, the red robot is not there to protect the red light jumper from the consequences of jumping the light, but to protect the innocent pedestrian from the actions of the law-breaker, or, god forbid, a culpable homicide charge as the innocent person proceeds through the green light over the delinquent cyclist's head. Unless the law-breakers decision to break the law is as the result of imminent harm, their actions and decisions are irrational at best. Justification of an irrational action that impinges on the rights of others is irrelevant - it has no meaning, and no value. I concede there are laws that make no sense. I would love to see a law that allows a left turn on red light, when it is clear (as they have a right turn in the States). I would love to see the rights of the road users, specifically cyclists, be as entrenched as they are in Europe. But we don't live in that kind of Utopia, and even then you would be hammered if you tried your jumping the lights over there, so it really isn't the kind of Utopia the OP desires anyway. The long and short of this thread is that there is clearly no empathy with the rights of the other road users, and more importantly, an assumption that they are infallible to error, somehow immune to running a light and not seeing an oncoming vehicle on all occasions. (How many times have you been riding or driving along and not realised how far you have gone without realising you have missed a good few km's?) Perhaps you do think you are immune? I don't know. But if you do, you are delusional. But a continued lack of empathy towards the rights and safety of others doesn't lead to the safe environment for all road users. Adding risk to an already risky situation is irresponsible at best, and downright stupid at worst. The response to this might be that I am on a moral high horse, or that "Don't you ever do anything wrong?", etc, etc. The answer is no, I am not perfect, I have jumped red lights, too. But I was wrong.

Having the F group swarm by up Smits was a bit of a shock. E group was quite mellow on the way out, cos it was the first time i ever got that far with the front of the group. (Normally i'm gone on Edinborough Drive already)

Gees, 5kg lighter and 6 mins Slower than last year... I hope i'm not the only one,or i am going to have to find old-age EPO. But safe and sound after a lovely day out...

I am counting on it... my last three races have been a total debacle!

Only 2kph slower? Pffft... mine was 4kph. Oh gees, I hope my legs come back in two weeks.

Nope I did 2:44 on Sunday (but I have been ill) and did 3:10 for Argus last year. And two years ago when Bay City was last run, I did 2:40 and did 3:29 for the Argus when it included Boyes.

3:20 to 3:25 fairly easily if the weather isn't a storm.

Well done, Bay City organisers! The marshalling was fantastic today.

In E from C last year, so par for the course... just look at it like this: if any of you feel you will ride away off the front of your group, then predict it now, and then come back on the day after the Argus, tell us how you did, and we'll agree your seeding was wrong. Otherwise, just chill...

Don't know why all the hostility about this... I crapped myself coming through some sand, got into a 'tank slapper' and got really sideways, but it was a jol. My beginner friends on mtb ' s just rode straight through. It all depended on your line and how late you got through, I suspect. Merits to HTFUing and for just chilling. Yours, Ban Ki Moon

Glad to hear they were all 'well', bud. Could have been much worse

I was right behind the first two that went down and I punctured, but somehow a lady and I got around with our bikes touching. Gees the first two hit the ground so hard. It was sickening

Having had my puncture which took ages to fix for some reason, I ended up with F to H riders mostly, and I will never complain about my normal groups again. There was no way I was going to try move to the front of anything. Actually, in hindsight the gravel was fun... But I took a chill pill and took it easy.

Horrific crash in B on the R44 by Nelson's Creek. I really hope the guys are Ok. Thank you to the lady who hit me but who managed to stay upright. Could have been a horrible day... But all all that happened was a puncture. (and thanks to the friendly fellow at the Voorpaardeberg water stop who helped me!)

If you have access to deep pool, and some flippers, get into the deep section, and kick freestyle vertically in 10 X 30s sets. (ie against gravity, with your arms just floating on the surface) . Make sure you keep your body straight and don't bend at the hips. Reason it works is that a) you are kicking in much deeper water is harder and b) as you get stronger you can raise your arms above your head, or take a weight above you. It's a fantastic drill and you'll get a big core workout at the same time when you can do it easily no flips, you you are a strong kicker!

Let me be very clear, Omega, if you had anything to do with the trails at Tokai, you have my gratitude. I love them, although I don't have the skills for the downhill ones. Nowhere in my statement did I make any attempt to belittle you or any of your friends' work, dedication or passion. And nor do I claim to have any moral high ground in the matter either, and neither did I make any statement about you riding the illegal trails, nor being party to any of the illegal riding of Deon's fellow committee member. If that person is doing it, and is involved in this discussion then he is a hypocrite. What I do care about is me and my mates riding at Tokai. Just like you and yours. And just like you and your guys "stuck to your statements" earlier in this thread, I stick to my statement that guys who think short term and act impulsively are going to risk us being able to be there at all. And as my statement was a reply to another Hubber, who actually thought we should give up Tokai as a bad job, and only use the jeep track, I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to view that as a potential outcome of this, if it is not sorted out. I don't think that is childish. To me it is common sense.

If it is the guy in pink Aurecon shorts in D/E group, he will be within 5 mins of me cos they came passed me up Boyes and I was about 2.40

If wasn't going through a similar process in my private business, I'd maybe be as cynical as you, but some things are just worth fighting for. You just can't destroy the object of your passion. Call me idealistic... Or I'm just getting old. Lol

A lot of the problems that created this thread are as a result of an inability to self-police. (amongst other things). And yes, the vast majority would not create reckless trails. But as in most things, it's the buggers who don't think long-term that cock it up for the rest of us. All most of us want is a place to ride, and where this is heading is one less place to ride.

I agree with you. Due process is a non-negotiable in these things. (I love the vision I got of the "The End is Nigh" with your "doomed" comment! )

Nah, there are plenty of poephols in Hiluxes, and horseboxes... and in pink lycra... (literally and figuratively)

Kandui - do you think you could be the equivalent of the IEC on this? You seem to be the far most qualified, with a helluva lot of inside knowledge of everything here. Given the nature of this thread, the position may be one of the most important components of this process. (Just thinking out loud - don't want to impose on you)

Guys, I think we need to be clear about this or it's gonna be a mess. As I understand, those nominated (sent to Amarider by the Monday) need to stand up and say their say/plans/etc at the AGM. Then everyone should vote for the people standing. If I, for example, give my proxy to Myles he will vote for the said nominee on the night of the AGM?

D-E group?? I know cos that horsebox hooted like a maniac as he came past up around the next corner... if it's the same guy, he was on the wrong side of the road down Spansgemacht (sp) on the way out too...

I go cos it's friggin beautiful up to the Peak and the Mast...