davetapson

+1 with DaleE's reply. My one thought is that if you weren't fat adapted before the race, you're starting your 'proper' LC'ing with very much reduced glycogen stores (since you've burned them all off in the race) and your body is slightly hypoglycemic. You can't currently create (much) glycogen from fat as you not fully adapted, and you are not eating them, so there is a bit of an 'energy gap'. My suggestion is to stick to the LC'ing - the fact that you are both probably glycogen depleted and not taking in carbs may force the adaption quicker. But possibly not easier if the hunger pangs are a problem. The craving feeling can be caused by hypoglycemia - the problem is that if you give in to them, then you will find yourself eating any carb within reach that is not fast enough to escape. Well, this is how it is for me anyway Once your liver has been jolted into turning fat into glycogen, you will be a-for-away and the hunger pangs will become a thing of the past.

I see you are giving them suggestions - not sure they are taking them up with the readiness they should. PvZ - HC vegan!? Heck. But I like his comments: Moderation is a fatal thing, nothing succeeds like excess. And: Post ride recovery meal of 15 large bananas = 1550 Kcal and 390 g of carb Geez - it takes a young man (or a trained vegan) to be able to eat 15 large bananas! Edit: One of my wife's patients, an Indian lady, gave her a plate of samoosas as a thank-you gift. I got home after commuting, and figured I may as well try one as what would one hurt? 15 samoosas later I decided I better give it a break (there were 4 left, and I was eyeing them with intent.) Have never had such a disturbed night. My guts just aren't capable of dealing with 15 samoosa's worth of pastry (she didn't use the normal phylo type pastry, but more like a wrap type pastry.) I've learned my lesson and have had my ass kicked back onto proper LC. Not 'cheating' again until I'm ketotic.

Looks like the research is starting. Interesting that they could find full set of LC cyclists but battling to find a HC cyclist. https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/139322-do-you-know-this-man-uct-cycling-research-participant-needed/

Somebody posted a link to them a couple hundred pages back. Sent shivers down my spine.

Some info on initial keto-adaption. I wish I had read this before I started. Would have removed some of the mystery. http://www.ketotic.org/2012/05/keto-adaptation-what-it-is-and-how-to.html

You guys psyched me out. Eric, the guy who washes cars at work is going at it on my bike. R20. Bargain. I gave him R30.

My understanding is that lactate is (largely?) a product of breaking down carbohydrates to produce energy. If you are not breaking down cho's, then you should not be producing (as much?) lactate. This, I understand, is why you don't pant so much when fat adapted - as panting is one of the body's ways to reduce acidity in the blood (due to lactic acid build up). Which is a long way of me saying that I think a person would produce less lactate at lower intensities (and higher intensities too for that matter) when fat adapted. Will be interesting to see your numbers. Someone needs to go and look at Krebs cycles etc. I had to do that too much to pass biochem to want to go and do it again...

Agreed. I listened to the original debate on a podcast and in it Noakes completely owned Opie - but not in a horrible way. The Carte Blanche version was pathetic. It is sad, as when Noakes was in full flow about LC and IR/carb intolerance he was quite compelling. That bit was of course left out, and diabetics will still be using all sorts of excuses that will lead them to slow, horrible diabetic deaths (going blind, having their extremities amputated bit by bit etc) No wonder Noakes gets angry about the nay sayers.

You guys have too much time and not enough to do. I still have Sani dust covered by Cullinan mud. I like to think it stops the frame fading in the sun. Might lube the chain before commuting home...

Everytime I hear a Huey fly over, it immediately transports me into VietNam movies - start listening for the gunfire and looking for the napalm...

Sniffie - how do you use the coconut oil? I'm not a great fan of the taste, so don't go out of my way to use it - but always think that I should be making more effort.

I've landed on my head at least twice which would have caused less than pleasant outcomes - and the once was at walking pace just outside our gate. I don't much like 'one size fits all' nanny rules, but I do wear my helmet ALWAYS.

Yeh - I'm not fussed whether it's left or right - the easiest line doesn't normally follow the rules of the road, so check out where you'd be riding if you weren't walking and don't walk there. It's not real hard to do.

Jirre - too scared! Ja, Kevin Evans even takes a whole different line to avoid clogging up the riding line. Respect.

Probably batching. Probably road riding. In any case, why does this make it acceptable to walking on the riding line?

Here's my Monday whine - prompted by my race on Saturday... and a number of other races. Riders walking on the riding line - esp. when there is plenty of space next to it. GRRR. If someone knows the commissionaires, could they not include a short comment in their pre-race briefing saying something like 'If you are walking, please do your best to walk off the riding line'. And no lady, walking in the riding line and cheerfully moving out of it only when requested by each person riding up behind you doesn't cut it. Just get off the ****** riding line. Rant done. Monday, bring it on...

RESULTS: Marathon A Batch AJP MTB hooligan B batch Lapa jcza 03:16:18 - GC 89 TooTall C Batch RossW - 3h21min57s GC 128 D@vid D Batch E Batch IdeJongh - Iwan kindly let me have his entry: davetapson 4:16 bester776 eina pyn F Batch WezGK 4h12m DomP - 3:40:57 (they allowed me to start from E batch Surprize GreatGusto Unknown IdeJongh Rumkat#2 River Rat & Wife, plus Red Bleeder! Dirtracker Half marathon A Batch FLAT29 but woke up with the flu this morning B batch Riaan Coetzee 02:01:52 GC 223 Purnjap Mr Winter 02:01:03 GC 212 C Batch NickC D Batch I Batch DeCleated(Gaan my gat in Rat moet kry) Muggins( This will teach me to fall at 30 km's last Trailseeker and tear shoulder tendons) Unknown Corrie Kuilder 02:00:14 GC 195 Zaskar09 Fun Ride 20 Fun Ride 10 Carma

Good job Dom. Did 4:16 dealing with cramp. Some dude fell on me abt 10 k from the end and that seemed to set them off. Never done this race but amazed at organisation and support of all sorts of businesses. Nice track as well.

About 20mins in Noakes explains thoughts on potential of fat burning. Says Volek has tested marathon runners in the lab and they can burn 1.7g/hrs which would allow a 2:20 marathon. That's pretty quick. Also mentions the 200g before / some during thing. Effectively says 'get yourself fat adapted and then try it and see. If you need some carbs, eat some.' Also says that if you are fat adapted, you do not switch off fat burning if you take in 200g carb, but that it will be saved for use during exercise. If you are not fat adapted, you will burn some of this up during the rest of the day. Also at 46 mins talks of 50 - 150g per day according to individual. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCAb9Pd8n14&feature=youtu.be&t=43s

Jirre - R495 for an entry... That's hectic for something that's supposed to be ad-hoc. Just saying. I was keen until I saw that. Ack.

Check the bloke in the background...

I agree that MTB'ing ain't marathon running for exactly your reasons... However, the messages I took from the answer: 1. Noakes does say that everyone is different - so a 'one rule for all' approach is unlikely to be correct. Which we know from experiences on this thread. 2. Some world class athletes do require some carb intake before and during events in order to perform - something that jcza and others have been saying from day 1. I've tried both ways, and I know for a fact that I have (a lot) more vooma with carb intake. I will try racing again on water from time to time just to check, but I suspect that I know what the answer will be. 3. We also know that not much carb is rqd during racing compared to before fat adaption. There are times when I'm chowing down something tasty that I know I'm just using the racing as an excuse. 4. Noakes says go with how you are feeling. You feel you need CHO? Then chow. You don't feel like you need it? Then don't chow. He's pretty blase about this stuff, plus I think he thinks the mind games are important - You think you need cho to perform? Then take it, it will help - mentally at least. My over-analytical-reading-between-the-lines-post over. I'm off home... (Just paid for shuttle for Dusi2C - woohoo!! Can't wait!!)

For those that tweet. Noakes has started a new twitter account in conjunction with Brad Brown to answer LCHF questions in a daily podcast: @AskProfNoakes. My brother tells me that the good Prof has reached retirement age and taken it. Sad day for the SSISA I think. Probably got tired of being beaten up and has better things to do with his time. Edit: And I got an immediate reply on question regarding fueling for MTB racing - answer based on running, but probably largely relevent: http://talkfeed.co.za/marathon-fueling-fat-adapted/

If anyone has an entry to the Marathon that they will not be using... Please message me.

I have to admit this is news to me. Not sure what to think of it but suppose it makes sense. I had no problem losing weight but I was quite fanatical about following the 'New Atkins for a New You' plan. When I think about it NAfaNY does not go overboard with Sat fat, but it doesn't exactly limit it either.