Not an expert on the frames issue at all, but I've done a fair amount of reading on the China manufacturing issue. I think it is possible to get an item that is pretty much equivalent (if not exactly the same as) a branded product, because the manufacturing culture is so aimed at just copying. Sometimes items will come out of the same factory, especially once the product is a year or two old and they still have the resources to put out a few 100k extra items. Very hard to police that. Manufacturers will often give their industrial customers a great price to manufacture something that has a new design, specifically because they want to copy it. They don't have the design skills yet, so they value designs sourced from outside. However, the issue is that we can hardly tell which type of knockoff we're getting. Could be a weak frame that'll kill you on a dropoff. Even if it is a direct copy, we're essentially helping the Chinese steal from their customers. So, hard to know what is right. I can understand a young kid who just doesn't have the money and doesn't want to pay the intermediaries. For those who can afford it, nice to support the LBS and design team who own the IP. This book is great: http://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-China-Insiders-Production/dp/0470405589
