Captain Fastbastard Mayhem

Shaite. I'm also riding and it's been a *** year for training. Need to get on that bike!

Dude, he had an idea. The announcement that it was imminent and starting NOW was made today. Go back to your hole. EDIT: We ALL knew it would happen sometime. The actual date, however, was not known. People sometimes do not talk to each other... And not "self-elected" at all. Elected by AMARider. What is it with you and antagonistic posts & personal attacks, dude?

Exactomondo. Guys like David16v were solely concentrating on XC bikes. Half the reason for bad setup on AM / FR / Trail bikes...

Yeah, you're right. Although it could be argued that if you're putting a setback seatpost, you're riding the wrong size bike as well. And as for flickability and handling - if the smaller frame forces a longer stem, that will do more to affect handling than the bigger frame will. Just think of putting a big stem onto a BMX / DJ bike in order to give it the "right fit" according to XC standards. Handling would be greatly compromised. Oh - and quit it with the condescending ****. You're falling back into your old habits again, D16

Yeah, because this looks soooooo stupid.. EDIT: BTW - the saddle was dropped for the way down.

My 26" HT had a 150mm fork on the front. Was an awesome bike to ride!

I'll say it again - different styles of riding (and diff bikes) have different categories when it comes to "long stems" DH - anything other than a direct mount stem FR - anything over 50mm AM - anything over 65mm Trail - anything over 75mm XC - anything over 80mm This is purely due to the different areas of concern - DH handling is vital, pedalling efficiency less so (they stomp pedals like nobody's business when they hit a pedal section) whereas XC is low, streamlined and pedal centric. I think where people are getting confused wrt the whole long vs short stem debate is that the different categories have vastly different focus points and setups. XC more towards climbing and all out efforts, AM more to descending after a climb and DH to descending only. That has a huge effect on which length of stem should be on your bike, or, rather, the range of stem that you should be looking at when building / fitting your bike. People should rather concentrate on the frame sizing & stem length range instead of just the stem length when finding a bike size, and then use the stem as a fine-tuning accessory rather than a "I have a reach of 700mm so an ETT of 600mm will be fine with a 100mm stem" Rather look at the type of bike it is, then the range of the stem that should be used for that bike and then the frame size (ETT length) should be the resulting number. But, in this - frame style is the prevailing factor in determining stem length. If, however, you know that your reach (in my case) is 645 - 650mm - My Large frame has a 610mm ETT. My existing 35mm stem fits perfectly, and is not more than the recommended maximum for the type of bike that it is. If I had bought a medium, at 588mm, my stem length for the bike would have been 57-62mm (60mm for rounding up sake) which, while still within the acceptable max for a stem on an AM / FR bike, is on the top end of the scale, and would put my weight far more forward, thereby compromising the handling on the way down. On the way up, it would have been fine as I would have been over the front and low etc, but as soon as I point down, my hands would be an additional 25mm in front of the head tube, which means more twitchy handling and more of a possibility of going OTB on a bad section. But - as I said earlier as well - anyone who puts a 150mm stem on their bike is just stoopid. In the MTB world, at least.

Btw - my bike is set up perfectly for me - large giant reign x, ETT of 610mm. Stem is 35mm zero degree rise, bars are 760mm wide. If the stem were any longer, I'd be too far over the front and handling would be compromised. I have an almost direct input on to the wheel direction, and I am "stretched" enough to enable me to do linger efforts (4 hours plus) on the bike without sacrificing descending capability or comfort.

Again - xc racing, where pedalling efficiency is the ultimate goal. Ys, they have long stems. Doesn't mean you should. They are focussed on climbing, threshold efforts and wattage. Not handling as the ultimate - they try to get handling as good as possible while retaining pedalling efficiency - much the same as road racing. In all other disciplines, handling takes the hot seat.

This is the burning question though - the correct setup for WHAT?! An xc race setup would be totally different to an am setup and that in turn would be even more far removed from a dh setup. Road setup is for ultimate pedalling efficiency, where handling is not a priority. Stem length matters less. Xc race setup is then less focussed on efficiency, but still highly efficiency weighted. Low and fast position, less technical handling etc. For an am / trail bike (which delilah rides, btw) a long stem is a complete no no. Handling takes supreme pride of place, with pedalling efficiency taking a back seat. What does that mean? Short stem, wide bars. Once again - the bike fit okes cater specifically to the xc / road race crowd, especially here in RSA where enduro riding / trail riding is not nearly as popular as it should be, and everyone thinks that they're Burry or Yaroslav. Last line - stop thinking in terms of absolutes. An xc setup CANNOT be translated to an AM bike - you will sacrifice handling and maneuvrability, place more weight on the front and be cuckolding yourself in an attempt to be "racy"

To add to what Crow said, Jeroen's set-up is catering to the XC race crowd, where total power output is reliant on a particular position on a bike, and he doesn't really worry about things like handling and control - more on the FIT side of things. What we are talking about here is predominately HANDLING and the impact a longer stem has on the bike's characteristics. If you are riding jeeptrack, then the stem length & bar width shouldn't make that much of a difference and you CAN get away with a 100 - 150mm stem (dunno why you'd want to though) but as soon as things get more interesting, a long stem becomes a very dangerous thing to have on your bike.

On one FTW... And they're CHEAP!!!

Absolutely. Long stems are the bane of control & handling efficiency. Anyone who says the opposite is exceedingly deluded. And if you need long stem to compensate for a too-short top tube, you've got the wrong sized bike. Pure and simple. Obviously this is more relevant to MTB than road (where you will be more inclined to change direction smoothly and quickly, and have changes in body position on the bike - road is by comparison a smooth, flowy handling experience - hardly ever do you need to have a rapid change of position or direction - it's a lot smoother) but the narrow bar / long stem infatuation is not a good one for handling and control on an MTB.

Yeah man. Can't really say no to a request to come home when there's a 7 month old lightie in the mix!

ROFL. Been there, done that. Those Vervets can get aggressive, and large...

sorry I had to bail early, guys... duty called! Great to meet you all though.

Or a slops, clipless and so on idea...

ROFL! Just shorter than me then...

Slow ME down!? You clearly haven't met me yet... ROFL. Come along, bro!

Hell yeah! And it should be open then. I definitely have "ride time" on Sunday & tomorrow morning... So I'll be there!

Thug - tomoz morning I can't make it, but others may be able to. Sunday is still on for me though

Your point being? Can you not appreciate a bit of harmless fun?

If you use a clearing agent, they will do that for you. I know a few ppl on the Hub are clearing agents, so it shouldn't be a problem...

What DJR said.

NICE!