TNT1

Right you are. Is this the first time they come away winless then?

2017, but they did win the teams and overall GC.

Look, it's very nice, but it's not R175k nice.

After he won the Giro with Movistar, he signed with Ineos, after having done that (and it was still secret) he repeatedly told Movistar he would re-sign with them and he was going to stay with them. They reportedly built a team around that commitment.

Yeah, it can make you harder if you're already a killer, or it will make you crumble. Carapaz is no Lance.

Listening to The Move, Hincapie keeps going on about having friends in the peloton. Might be there's some wisdom in that.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the Grenades either.

You don't even need to have kids to see it's a fantastic spectacle. I loved Pogacar posing with Mark and his three kids so Peta could snap a pic. Brilliant. It's so nice to see a human side of pro sport. I couldn't imagine the robotic twats like Lewis Hamilton being a real person outside of the sheltered environment of F1, for example.

Yeah, I just find it hard to sing his praises. He's a turd. That nonsense with the lying to Movistar and then his questionable ethics on the road to Col du Portet cemented my opinion of him.

Vingegaard out-climbed Carapaz and mugged him for nearly two minutes on Saturday. I guess improved is relative.

World's last year had even more climbing than this course does. And even there, Wout was simply marked out of contention and still managed a second. I sure don't see the olympic RR going to a pure or specialist climber. Although: it is still 35 km from the top to the finish, mostly flat and lumpy. You'd need a couple of minutes at the top to hold off someone like Wout in TT mode.

Gonna get me some Movistar kit...

On current form, it's hard to see anyone other than Wout van Aert winning the road race, and maybe going double in the TT.

Primoz is 31, but, and this is crucial to this discussion, he arrived on the scene as the complete package. He didnb't need years of trying to hone one particular aspect of his game. Much like the current crop of kids, they are simply, more or less, complete and ready to win. Also, it is apt that the TT is called the race of truth. Not only does it expose the individual, it lays bare the rider's own weak points. I would even go so far as to suggest that in a three week tour, with 65+ km of flat TT's, Pogacar would find his job a bit harder. He is far better in the mountains than in a flat TT by the look of things.

There is never going to be enough time. Look at the names ahead of him here: 1 Wout Van Aert (Bel) Jumbo-Visma 0:35:53 2 Kasper Asgreen (Den) Deceuninck-QuickStep 0:00:21 3 Jonas Vingegaard (Den) Jumbo-Visma 0:00:32 4 Stefan Küng (Swi) Groupama-FDJ 0:00:38 5 Stefan Bissegger (Swi) EF Education-Nippo 0:00:44 6 Mattia Cattaneo (Ita) Deceuninck-QuickStep 0:00:49 7 Mikkel Bjerg (Den) UAE Team Emirates 0:00:52 8 Tadej Pogacar (Slo) UAE Team Emirates 0:00:57 9 Magnus Cort (Den) EF Education-Nippo 0:01:00 10 Dylan van Baarle (Ned) Ineos Grenadiers 0:01:21 11 Brandon McNulty (USA) UAE Team Emirates 0:01:35 12 Bruno Armirail (Fra) Groupama-FDJ 0:01:46 13 Jonathan Castroviejo Nicolas (Spa) Ineos Grenadiers 0:01:47 14 Omar Fraile Matarranz (Spa) Astana-Premier Tech 15 Fred Wright (GBr) Bahrain Victorious 0:01:56 16 Alexey Lutsenko (Kaz) Astana-Premier Tech 0:01:58 17 Maximilian Walscheid (Ger) Qhubeka-NextHash 0:02:01 18 Harry Sweeny (Aus) Lotto Soudal 19 Julian Alaphilippe (Fra) Deceuninck-QuickStep 0:02:05 20 Anthony Perez (Fra) Cofidis 21 Luke Durbridge (Aus) Team BikeExchange 22 Dries Devenyns (Bel) Deceuninck-QuickStep 0:02:06 23 Richard Carapaz (Ecu) Ineos Grenadiers 0:02:09 24 Neilson Powless (USA) EF Education-Nippo 0:02:16 25 Jonas Rickaert (Bel) Alpecin-Fenix 0:02:19 26 Wilco Kelderman (Ned) Bora-Hansgrohe 0:02:20 27 Enric Mas Nicolau (Spa) Movistar Team 0:02:29 28 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek-Segafredo 0:02:32 29 Hugo Houle (Can) Astana-Premier Tech 0:02:33 30 Xandro Meurisse (Bel) Alpecin-Fenix 0:02:40 31 Ben O'Connor (Aus) AG2R Citroën Team 0:02:41 32 Ruben Guerreiro (Por) EF Education-Nippo 33 Thomas De Gendt (Bel) Lotto Soudal 0:02:42 34 Connor Swift (GBr) Team Arkea-Samsic 0:02:43 35 Pierre Latour (Fra) TotalEnergies 0:02:45 36 Aurélien Paret Peintre (Fra) AG2R Citroën Team 37 Jasper Stuyven (Bel) Trek-Segafredo 0:02:47 38 Christophe Laporte (Fra) Cofidis 0:03:04 39 Dylan Teuns (Bel) Bahrain Victorious 40 Rigoberto Uran (Col) EF Education-Nippo 0:03:06 41 Louis Meintjes (RSA) Intermarché-Wanty-Gobert Matériaux 0:03:11 42 Pello Bilbao Lopez De Armentia (Spa) Bahrain Victorious 0:03:13 43 Richie Porte (Aus) Ineos Grenadiers 0:03:15 44 Rui Costa (Por) UAE Team Emirates 0:03:19 45 Michael Valgren (Den) EF Education-Nippo 0:03:22 46 Sergio Higuita Garcia (Col) EF Education-Nippo 0:03:23 47 Geraint Thomas (GBr) Ineos Grenadiers 0:03:28 48 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Astana-Premier Tech 0:03:35 49 David Gaudu (Fra) Groupama-FDJ 0:03:36 50 Pierre-Luc Périchon (Fra) Cofidis 0:03:41 51 Michael Mørkøv (Den) Deceuninck-QuickStep 0:03:42 52 Sepp Kuss (USA) Jumbo-Visma 0:03:44

But there are so many other riders younger than him who climb at least as well (if not better) and TT at a sufficient level. He's going to be 30 if and when his TT level is sufficient, think how many more 21 year olds will breaking through in the next four years.

Can't we have an olympics (at least RR and ITT) thread and then come back to this?

How? He can't time trial anything like a top ten contender even.

What? Like he was the only person able to put Pogacar in trouble in the mountains, and he was faster than him in the final TT? I don't think you watched the same race as everyone else.

Yeah. This exchange was all tongue in cheek between the two. Lance has a fantastic sense of humour, especially about all this.

Just listened to Lance having a go at Hincapie over the fact that all Lance's wins have been deleted and Hincapie's still stand. Lance: " how is that possible we were eating from the same cereal box".

Johan Bruyneel reckons the proper pronunciation sounds too close to Vinokourov, so he emphasises the to "g's" as hard g's.

2011[edit] ... Cavendish (in the green jersey), being led out by team-mates Matthew Goss and Mark Renshaw on stage fifteen of the 2011 Tour de France.

Delete it now. More research, less thinking.

Yeah, all too often, unbelievable performances have been eventually shown to be exactly that.