Andyr249

Ummmmmmmmmmmm. Interesting!

Climbers leave the flat to the ones who can go fast then and those fast men leave the climbs to the climbers! How long would a Tour stage take if you had Schlecks Bro's and Contador pacing on a flat and someone like Cavendish pacing up the climbs?

Look at that quick and accomodating reply! One reason why I am a member of the Club.

Anton, lay the foundations properly and you will be successful with your venture.

It would be another nail in their coffin. Yes, documentary evidence. First prize would be to create an anti-doping statute making doping in sport illegal. Then you would be able to charge them directly for that and not indirectly for fraud etc.

Anton, you are going to have to put in place something like CSC/Saxo Bank do with a public anti-doping program depending on how serious you are going to get the team to compete.

Andy Hampsten was a great rider!

I think that it should be minimum of 5 years for first offence with co-operation making it closer to 5 years and not co-operating making it longer depending on the circumstance of the case before the relevant tribunal.

Look, the guy is paying 18 months for his doping. What more do you want him to do? And yes it was stupid of him to it, but we are only human and we do screw up sometimes. And I think kids can see him as a role model cause he admitted that he made a mistake and we are not perfect. Lets just hope that he'll be back after his ban with a bang and be doing what he's known for doing best. Just that well have less BANG for our buck, a cheat will never gain the respect or believe that he has performed naturally again. In my eyes a cheat forever!!!!!! If we teach our kids that you can get away so lightly from something as serious as this, I gues that makes us bad parents!!!!! Exactly!!! Well said Kritzie. The fact is that if you are an athlete or any person that that is well know and in the public eye then you must be prepared to be scrutinised in all aspects of your life. Pantani is a legend, for the right and wrong reasons. If dying from a cocain overdose a good example? You can't exclude certain things and include others. It is the whole person who is looked at. If you are in the public eye you have to be even more careful of how you conduct yourself in all aspects of you life. Kids don't distinguish between good athletic performance and how the person conducts himself/herself. They see the person and want to be like that person! It is better for kids to have Lance as their role models than Pantani. Both had some good athletic results and abilities. But Lance has not failed a dope test or been sanctioned for doping whilest Pantani too drugs and died of an overdose. Which would you prefer your kids to be look up to? Dopers should get a minimum of 5 years for first offence if they co-operate. If they don't then a longer sentence at the discretion of the hearing. But it has to be harsh. Sport is business now and the business world is very harsh! Sport was even harsh in ancient Rome. If you didn't put up a good fight as a Gladiator then you were killed.

Are you really saying that? So an accountant can commit fraud because nobody is paying to watch him do his job? Is doping "entertainment" now? Because that is what you said!!Andyr2492010-02-10 07:01:14

Doping is a criminal offence in France and a few other European countries I think but definitely in France.

I hear you. And I hear most of you guys on the "Give them a hard ban so everyone else is scared off" , thing is - there needs to be a option for forgiveness and 2nd change , its not like they killed someone - maybe killed someones dream, yes. Its the riders choice to then decide if he wants to take that 2nd chance after the ban - face all the difficulties of a comeback and face the music in papers and media. If not chicken out and leave the sport. You were a complete cheat anyway. Riders who failed and got into some bad things like doping and cheating who comes back after the initial ban to show character and to proof everyone wrong, are the one's I'm trying to protect and give a 2nd chance. Make the initial ban hard on the riders to make the choice easier to not dope - but give a chance to the one's who do fall into that trap due to pressure or what ever. So the accountant who assists his client knowing it was wrong must be allowed to continue practicing accounting? The lawyer who puts his hands into trust account money knowing it was wrong must be allowed to practice law again? The doctor who commits malpractice knowing it was wrong must be allowed to practice medicine again? If a rider/accountant/lawyer/doctor is prepared to do it once then there is a huge chance that their principles level is not high enough for the sport or profession. For accounting/Legal professions you have to be a fit and proper person for those professions. You have to prove it. By taking dope you are proving that you are not a fit and proper person to be involved in professional cycling.

If rider emmigrate then that is good. It will leave the clean riders behind. Take Oscar Perreiro. He won the Tour because Landis was disqualified. But who stood on the top step in Paris - Landis. Perreiro, being the clean rider, was denied the emotion and glory of standing on the top step of the Tour de France. Sport is not still sport! Maybe 30 years ago yes. But today sport is business as is everything else. That is the reality of it. If in business the accountant or lawyer or doctor does something wrong they can't practice their business/profession anymore. Why the difference with cycling? Why the difference with any sport? If you think that sport is still sport then you are incredibly naive!!!!!

Are you sure those aren't pics of the Wet One?

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs... "I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins" Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all. others don't bother. 2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat. One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair [/quote'] And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper! So once a criminal always `n criminal ? Why do we have prisons then ? (Talking in general not SA only.) Why not just kill young criminals with the first offense, because rehab is a joke and a cover up for corrupt people ? We don't want these people in society so why give them the chance to proof us wrong ? If the same happened to Nelson Mandela then it was tickets for him as well. It was tickets for him. 27 years! So we should ban dopers for 27 years now? And they used to kill criminals with the first offence! They used to tie a rope around your neck for your actions. In some states of the USA and other countries in the world they still do that or give you a nice chair to sit in or give you a needle with some dope in! But I think that while crimes are similar the principle is slightly different. By doping you are violating the ethical and professional standards of the profession of cycling. Violate the ethical and professional standards of Accounting or Law or Medicine and you are barred from practicing in those professions. So, dope in cycling and you should be barred from practising that profession! Simple.

So not being able to practice as an accountant is also hard. But that is life and if that cuts down of the number of accountants that assist in committing fraud then that is good. Life bans in cycling are the same thing. One is just accounting and the other is cycling. Principle is the same!

Most get caught A and B sample Positive and still denies ever taking drugs... "I thought the sirringe the team doc gave me were vitamins" Thats the basis of this - some admit and tell all. others don't bother. 2 kinds of dopers / cheaters / criminals. Ones who can rehabilitate ' date=' show remorse and confess, others that sit the time denying it and pan their next cheat. One has to cater for both - its only human to be fair [/quote'] And deny the good results to a rider who is clean but can't achieve them because he is beaten by a "remorseful" doper? If you are a doper you are a doper!

Yes, but if you are convicted of fraud and a few other offences then it is ticket. You can't hold directorships etc. No such thing as banning from directorships for 2 years or so. You can't hold positions of trust anymore. 1 chance and if you muck that up then it is your bad luck! Why not in cycling?

Why the difference and other chances? As was mentioned in other careers it is one strike and you are out! So why not cycling? They need to start making proper examples. Nolan gets 18 months. So what does that say? Let me try dope but if I get caught I will co-operate and get 18 month ban and then I am still young enough to try redeem myself. That is a fabulous example isn't it? What they need to do is start criminalising doping as I believe some European countries have done. Send them for a spell with Bubba and I'm sure they will get the message. 18 months is almost nothing so youngsters will take that chance. Make it longer and they will definitely start thinking more before. He broke the rule and must start paying a proper price! In addition to the bans teams should start not contracting riders who have been caught for doping. Or at least sponsors should put start putting the pressure on. They have somewhat by pulling sponsorship but not enough. Take Vino for example: I am a sponsor who sponsors a team. The team hires Vino. Vino and my company name are associated together. I would not want that. The only way too clean up cycling is to hit the pockets! Without sponsorship money professional cycling can't operate. Teams and riders will quickly step into line!

Exactly my experience!

No man SwissVan! Nomination from Loftus! Never knew Rowan Atkinson was nominated for CSA President though!