GoLefty!! Posted September 26, 2013 Share Eer the Lotus has the same in the boot as the Red Bull...... Edited September 26, 2013 by GoLefty!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Knoetze (sk27) Posted September 27, 2013 Share Eer the Lotus has the same in the boot as the Red Bull...... Putting a Ferrari engine in your citi golf is not going to get around the Nurburgring any quicker. In fact you'de probably be sitting in a tree somewhere in the forests surrounding the track. The Lotus may have the Renault engine but thats it, chassis, suspensione, electronics, etc are all Lotus and of course the drivers. @Cpt, what do you think of Ricciardo's chances of being competitive next year in the RBR? Vettel seems to think he may be but I think it's more than likely the finishing comments towards Webber after their somewhat iffy relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaBee Posted September 27, 2013 Share Ja, but they doin't have a Newey designed car in front of the boot! As for the drivers: Alonso is very good, I agree. To year after year pull that Ferrari into contention takes some doing. Always have been a Kimi fan (even when he drove for McLaren - incredible but true!) and really rate him as a driver. Whether he's got the feedback capabilities of an Alonso or Vettel is open for debate. Hamster not too shabby. Button lucked into a WC with Brawn's early-season dd loophole, really do not think he's as good. Maybe smooth and good on tyres, but that's that. Even that in the current tyre era where he should have had an advantage because of his driving style, he's not shining. Vettel does not get the praise he deserves because it's a Newey car. It takes good feedback, good driving and good car management to win races. In my mind it's no coincidence that things on his car simply don't break as much, even though he's going faster. Just think back to how the likes of Mansell broke cars... Not the same way de Crasheris did, but still... Anyways, that's my opinions. Oh, and Marquez rocks! That kid deserves all praise he gets. I do not think Pedrosa saw this coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Knoetze (sk27) Posted September 27, 2013 Share Ja, but they doin't have a Newey designed car in front of the boot! As for the drivers: Alonso is very good, I agree. To year after year pull that Ferrari into contention takes some doing. Always have been a Kimi fan (even when he drove for McLaren - incredible but true!) and really rate him as a driver. Whether he's got the feedback capabilities of an Alonso or Vettel is open for debate. Hamster not too shabby. Button lucked into a WC with Brawn's early-season dd loophole, really do not think he's as good. Maybe smooth and good on tyres, but that's that. Even that in the current tyre era where he should have had an advantage because of his driving style, he's not shining. Vettel does not get the praise he deserves because it's a Newey car. It takes good feedback, good driving and good car management to win races. In my mind it's no coincidence that things on his car simply don't break as much, even though he's going faster. Just think back to how the likes of Mansell broke cars... Not the same way de Crasheris did, but still... Anyways, that's my opinions. Oh, and Marquez rocks! That kid deserves all praise he gets. I do not think Pedrosa saw this coming... Off topic, but I still think Stoner would own Marquez if he was still racing. But I suppose we will never know.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaBee Posted September 27, 2013 Share That may be so... but Marquez is only 20! That's where both he and Vettel are so amazing. At only 26 (and heading for a 4th title), Vettel has 6 years on the likes of Alonso and Kimi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted September 27, 2013 Share Putting a Ferrari engine in your citi golf is not going to get around the Nurburgring any quicker. In fact you'de probably be sitting in a tree somewhere in the forests surrounding the track. The Lotus may have the Renault engine but thats it, chassis, suspensione, electronics, etc are all Lotus and of course the drivers. @Cpt, what do you think of Ricciardo's chances of being competitive next year in the RBR? Vettel seems to think he may be but I think it's more than likely the finishing comments towards Webber after their somewhat iffy relationship. I think he has a good chance. Personally I would have liked to see Hulkenberg in there, as he's also a strong up and coming driver. I think Kimi will rip Alonso apart, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted September 27, 2013 Share Eer the Lotus has the same in the boot as the Red Bull...... And a totally different aerodynamic package AND chassis surrounding that boot. Not the same at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted September 28, 2013 Share The Lotus chassis is not a bad package. Its proven itself to be excellent in fact, hence it is often carrying the Renault right there with the Red Bull. Where Lotus struggle is mid season development. They don't have the cash flow to keep up with Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes and McLaren. They need a backer willing to pay the big bucks needed. AS for Newey designed cars being so great: it true to a limited context in that Mr Newey does a great job of working with his engineers to have the most integrated package on the grid. But it is also worth noting that never in his history in F1 has he had the level of domination that he has enjoyed with Sebastian Vettel.In 1988 through 90 he designed really slippery cars for Leyton House March. Then he moved to Williams Renault and gave Mansell a fantastic car in 91 92, prost in 93 and the 94 car was a bit of a disaster initially but he sorted it out. His worst period while winning was in 1995 to1997 with Hill, Villeneuve and Coulthard. None of those drivers really could get the Newey cars to be dominant, but they still took the champs in those years.In 98 with Hakkinen at McLaren he was back on top, dominantly and a repeat in 99 after Schumacher sat out most of the season.But in 2000 through to 2008 He did not have a team or driver capable of delivering. Its only after the rule change end of 2008 that he got back on top and mostly again with Master Vettel behind the wheel. Save for the year when Hill, Villeneuve and Coulthard drove and the 92 to 93 perios with active suspension automatic cars, His cars were only dominant in the hands of drivers who have been recognised as being exceptional talents. So its not just Newey that should be given credit, its also the driver. F1 is ultimately a team sport. Fans like to break things down to the "Magic bullet" which is generally disingenuous to the way F1 works ultimately. SO as for the Lotus, its probably as very good package overall in comparison to the Red Bull and has the same engine and therefore the same power available. Its proven to be better on the tyres than the other cars which says it better balanced overall. But in the Red Bull, you have a youngster who has proven himself to be the measure of his rivals. Much is made of Alonso but he won both his championship at Renault (formerly Benetton, Then Renault, now Lotus) who have a history of designing brilliant F1 cars using Michelin tyres which were the rubber to have in the mid 2000's. He's a great driver, one of the best but to write off Vettel's achievement to simply "Newey" is not fully understanding the whole picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted September 28, 2013 Share The Lotus chassis is not a bad package. Its proven itself to be excellent in fact, hence it is often carrying the Renault right there with the Red Bull. Where Lotus struggle is mid season development. They don't have the cash flow to keep up with Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes and McLaren. They need a backer willing to pay the big bucks needed. AS for Newey designed cars being so great: it true to a limited context in that Mr Newey does a great job of working with his engineers to have the most integrated package on the grid. But it is also worth noting that never in his history in F1 has he had the level of domination that he has enjoyed with Sebastian Vettel.In 1988 through 90 he designed really slippery cars for Leyton House March. Then he moved to Williams Renault and gave Mansell a fantastic car in 91 92, prost in 93 and the 94 car was a bit of a disaster initially but he sorted it out. His worst period while winning was in 1995 to1997 with Hill, Villeneuve and Coulthard. None of those drivers really could get the Newey cars to be dominant, but they still took the champs in those years.In 98 with Hakkinen at McLaren he was back on top, dominantly and a repeat in 99 after Schumacher sat out most of the season.But in 2000 through to 2008 He did not have a team or driver capable of delivering. Its only after the rule change end of 2008 that he got back on top and mostly again with Master Vettel behind the wheel. Save for the year when Hill, Villeneuve and Coulthard drove and the 92 to 93 perios with active suspension automatic cars, His cars were only dominant in the hands of drivers who have been recognised as being exceptional talents. So its not just Newey that should be given credit, its also the driver. F1 is ultimately a team sport. Fans like to break things down to the "Magic bullet" which is generally disingenuous to the way F1 works ultimately. SO as for the Lotus, its probably as very good package overall in comparison to the Red Bull and has the same engine and therefore the same power available. Its proven to be better on the tyres than the other cars which says it better balanced overall. But in the Red Bull, you have a youngster who has proven himself to be the measure of his rivals. Much is made of Alonso but he won both his championship at Renault (formerly Benetton, Then Renault, now Lotus) who have a history of designing brilliant F1 cars using Michelin tyres which were the rubber to have in the mid 2000's. He's a great driver, one of the best but to write off Vettel's achievement to simply "Newey" is not fully understanding the whole picture So basically you agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted September 28, 2013 Share Read my precious post re lotus being underpowered. Was the wrong word to use, but still relevant. Even though the lotus has the same engine, the RB mechanics know more about it and will have a different level of tune or different mapping protocol than the Lotus. So in conjunction with the different aero package (which makes a huge difference) AND Vettel's brilliance on the track they have the clear domination. Raikonnen's performance had been just as good in a car that doesn't have as good an aero package, yet is better on its tires than the RB. A more accurate picture would be to compare Webber to Vettel to see the difference the driver makes to racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaBee Posted October 3, 2013 Share Read an interesting article about the RB car seemingly having some trickery up it's sleeve. They're not claiming it to be illegal, but interesting engine mappings and blowing exhausts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyLegs Posted October 3, 2013 Share Serious show of force. But man, that start of Alonos was absolutely unreal! Biggest BS was that Webber apparently received a grid penalty for the next race for being given a lift by Alonso?! If that IS so, that's just plain crazy. They're killing the sport with rules. On a side-note, Italy was the first time I saw F1 in HD - what an experience. But wow... this night race just made it so much more spectacular!And now he has a taxi bill as well: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted October 3, 2013 Share Read an interesting article about the RB car seemingly having some trickery up it's sleeve. They're not claiming it to be illegal, but interesting engine mappings and blowing exhausts... All the engine manufacturers are using interestng engine maps to maximise the potential for each cars unique exhaust blown diffuser.where Red Bull have a huge lead on everyone else is in the engine and ancillary equipment packaging. Renault provides a neat install that is more customisable than the Meredes engine and its one of the main reasons the Red BUll designe team has never chased Mercedes engine very hard. It also has benefits in heat rejection that can be exploited for aerodynamic gain and Red BUll does a very good job off managing the air flow to exploit this. Other team shave more resourses but Red Bull and Renault always just seem to have more clever ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 4, 2013 Share 'Rush' Movie superb Checkit out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoisan Posted October 4, 2013 Share And now he has a taxi bill as well: Note : Tip already included!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Knoetze (sk27) Posted October 7, 2013 Share Another Vettel win, looks like Japan will be the final nail in the coffin. 4th World Championship!!!! But what a performance from Hulkenburg, amazing drive under immense pressure!!!! If Lotus don't snatch him up they're a bunch of fools!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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