javadude Posted May 21, 2011 Share 2) I have kakked off, sweated bullets, puked and generally suffered my way to victory and failure. I did it clean - why is it so hard for him? I bet you every single pro cyclist that has taken drugs did exactly the same, kakked off, sweated bullets, puked and geenrally suffered. It wasn't good enough, because everyone else around them was doing exactly the same as well injecting themselves up to their eyeballs. Taking drugs doesn't mean these guys suffered any less, because it was and probably still is a level playing field. I can imagine the reluctance of these guys coming out now to be the fall guys, when they know full well that just about everyone else around them was guilty of the same offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted May 22, 2011 Share Who knows, and who gives you or anyone else the right to pass judgement on his actions.? I find it very pious that so many people are quick to judge, to thump their chests in indgnation and proclaim their self rightiousness, but how dos anyone know what keeps Tyler, Floyd or anyone else awake at night or what motivates them to change their mind, today, next week, next year.? Life is not a stagnant pool, we change, we learn, we progress, we make mistakes, we repent, we look away, we regret, we have remorse and sometimes we are forced into situations beyond our control. Yeah, its easy to kick a man who is down, to take his healing motives and turn them around to suit our indignant selves, to build our ego on their destruction,..but, Yeah, no matter, "Let he without fault Cast the first stone.!" Grumps - you're guilty of your own acusations here - you're judging me here... Interesting no? My point was that it is possible to cycle, work, carve a career etc without having to break the law. I have and I'm guessing pretty much every poster on this forum gets through work everyday without breaking the law. My opinion is that this soft assed "welcome them back with open arms" approach is effectively condoning doping. I'm guessing Tyler sold his story to 60 minutes, he was able to sell it to 60 minutes because he was famous, he was famous because he took drugs. Still making money from doping post cycling? Great aint it? Imagine if being caught doping meant jail time, losing your house and the general scorn of the entire cycling world... I'm guessing it would solve most of the problem. It does here in the real world - how many of you out there defraud, steal and cheat at your place of work on a daily basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squier Posted May 23, 2011 Share That's the point... If Tyler came clean without dragging LA into it everyone would've already forgotten about it and continued with their lives. However, I strongly doubt that he would've been able to sell his story to 60 minutes if LA was not mentioned. So there goes the cash benefit... I'm all for respecting a guy that comes clean and owns up but doing it whilst dragging other people down is not admirable... especially when you get financial benefit by doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted May 23, 2011 Share That's the point... If Tyler came clean without dragging LA into it everyone would've already forgotten about it and continued with their lives. However, I strongly doubt that he would've been able to sell his story to 60 minutes if LA was not mentioned. So there goes the cash benefit... I'm all for respecting a guy that comes clean and owns up but doing it whilst dragging other people down is not admirable... especially when you get financial benefit by doing so. The interesting thing is that Lance is the only person that he did name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javadude Posted May 23, 2011 Share That's the point... If Tyler came clean without dragging LA into it everyone would've already forgotten about it and continued with their lives. However, I strongly doubt that he would've been able to sell his story to 60 minutes if LA was not mentioned. So there goes the cash benefit... I'm all for respecting a guy that comes clean and owns up but doing it whilst dragging other people down is not admirable... especially when you get financial benefit by doing so. I don't respect Tyler at all, and I never will. I see his telling the truth about everything as his obligation, and not as a means to gain my respect. If he saw Lance taking drugs then he needs to say so. If he makes money off this then so be it, that's between him and 60 minutes, but I want to know that he's telling the truth. From the way people are going on on this thread, you would think that they would rather live with a lifetime of lies, or silence, rather than the truth come out just because a bit of money changes hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E1A104 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Simple. Some people do not want to hear what the truth might be as they have so much "invested" in one person/idol/deity but the fact that he mentioned that person has got them up in arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted May 23, 2011 Share I got attacked by Hansie fans some years back at a Charles Glass Society meeting when I asked him how much he made out of the three-part interview he did with Mike Hayesman. Reportedly, that was in the region of R1-million. He mumbled something about having huge legal fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted May 23, 2011 Share Simple. Some people do not want to hear what the truth might be as they have so much "invested" in one person/idol/deity but the fact that he mentioned that person has got them up in arms. On Lance and belief, I read this over the weekend: "As he was an atheist, it was odd to see Armstrong embrace this almost God-like status. There was even his version of The Bible – It’s Not About the Bike. The Bible didn’t manage a sequel. Armstrong did." Endgame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EigerSA Posted May 23, 2011 Share Lets all be honest here, the matter at hand is not whether Landis or Tyler took drugs, but rather whether Lance Armstrong did. At the end of the day we can speculate all we want, but in all those year of cycling and dope testing, Lance never once handed in a positive sample, this in spite of a blatantly hostile testing/governing body. The guys that admit it now, they're just looking for some attention and cash is all, they are a bunch of pathetic losers and dopers, and now we're supposed to believe them, after all their denials!? Please. Lance is the 'king' until proven otherwise. Everyone else can go whistle dixie. Edited May 23, 2011 by EigerSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EigerSA Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted on Bike Hugger on the matter of George Hincappie's admittion of doping before a grand jury... If we’re going to really tackle the problem of doping in cycling we have to look at all the dopers, otherwise it’s a witch hutch. It doesn’t matter if Lance was dirty if we only focus on him and ignore those around him who also were dirty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted May 23, 2011 Share Lets all be honest here, the matter at hand is not whether Landis or Tyler took drugs, but rather whether Lance Armstrong did. At the end of the day we can speculate all we want, but in all those year of cycling and dope testing, Lance never once handed in a positive sample, this in spite of a blatantly hostile testing/governing body. The guys that admit it now, they're just looking for some attention and cash is all, they are a bunch of pathetic losers and dopers, and now we're supposed to believe them, after all their denials!? Please. Lance is the 'king' until proven otherwise. Everyone else can go whistle dixie. Personally I thought the matter at hand was about whether new age confessors are to be admired or scorned...ah well here's to another 300 pages of 500 trillion tests and no positives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted May 23, 2011 Share Personally I thought the matter at hand was about whether new age confessors are to be admired or scorned...ah well here's to another 300 pages of 500 trillion tests and no positives... The whistle-blower issue has been topical outside sport lately. Think WikiLeaks, the Protection of Information Bill here, etc. Personally, I admire the confessors. But here's a question: over the years I have heard tales from trustworthy sources about doping in cycling. Yet, there are no positive tests to back up these stories. Do I talk about these incidents or keep them to myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted May 23, 2011 Share The whistle-blower issue has been topical outside sport lately. Think WikiLeaks, the Protection of Information Bill here, etc. Personally, I admire the confessors. But here's a question: over the years I have heard tales from trustworthy sources about doping in cycling. Yet, there are no positive tests to back up these stories. Do I talk about these incidents or keep them to myself? You pegged me wrong Tumbleweed - I'm all for whistle blowing - the more evidence that can be secured in the fight against doping the better. I do have seriously low opinions of people like Tyler though - double/triple offender who only blew on his whistle when the feds came knocking at his door. If he had 'fessed up quietly to the authorities of his own free will and given a written account of all doping he'd witnessed I may be inclined to search for some forgiveness but the 60 mins style Lance accusations with the feds hot on his heels just smacks of cowardice and cashing in to me. Millar, Basso etc fall into my "made one mistake and paid for it" style rider. Floyd, Tyler, Ricco fall into my serial offending money grabbing ethicless douchebags category. Each to their own though I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob! Posted May 23, 2011 Share I was thinking about Intern's post over the weekend and increasingly disagree with the statement of Tyler coming clean and thus being forgiven.It takes some courage to reveal your doping past (which, to be honest, is anything but a surprise). On the other hand he might just be a sofite, not able to live with his past as a cheat (the group dynamics only work as long as you are part of it) for the rest of his live and thus decided to come clean. Further, as correctly stated, it is good media coverage for his book to appear and thus free marketing. If I compare it to Erik Zabel and Udo Bölts it's a similar story. The both used PED's and confessed when they couldn't be held liable for it anymore. Both are cycling legends in Germany but both didn't get there clean. I think they are cool guys, but they cheated and I don't look up to them any more as much. No matter how many more times Bölts wins the Cape Epic without actually training for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EigerSA Posted May 23, 2011 Share The whistle-blower issue has been topical outside sport lately. Think WikiLeaks, the Protection of Information Bill here, etc. Personally, I admire the confessors. But here's a question: over the years I have heard tales from trustworthy sources about doping in cycling. Yet, there are no positive tests to back up these stories. Do I talk about these incidents or keep them to myself? How can you report on something without some sort of corroboration? If you do, surely you're just slandering someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted May 23, 2011 Share If he had 'fessed up quietly to the authorities of his own free will and given a written account of all doping he'd witnessed I may be inclined to search for some forgiveness but the 60 mins style Lance accusations with the feds hot on his heels just smacks of cowardice and cashing in to me. I agree with you on Tyler. You have to question the timing of the CBS interview: just like Landis, this all came out at ToC time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now