Riding up the DOWNhills at Tokai

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

That wass kinda the point... :-)

[grb285]

It's pretty clear that there's some animosity towards DH riders. I'd love to know why. There seem to be a number of XC riders around here who clearly have a chip on their shoulders (one even in Gauteng!). We're going around in circles here and frankly it's a little sad that some people can be so obtuse.

 

We'll need to see to it that the exits of the DH runs are clearly marked as NO ENTRY, however I agree that the culprits who ride up the runs know what they are doing.

 

To those who choose to be chops, know this, I will never waste my energy confronting you about this in order to 'educate you', BUT you will come off second best if there's a collision. I will not put myself in danger by swerving off route and potentially connecting a tree. Most of us wear body armour and have heavy bikes. Your carbon frames will splinter and your lycra is not going to help you much either.

 

See you on the trails.

[(Deon)]

See you on the trails.

 

Hey Gary, this must happen to you on a regular basis? You seem to think you've not made your point. Starting to sound a bit like you came for a fight. You have also chosen to ignore the comments that indicate that you are correct in your point.. but it could be your anger that keeps you from finding solace in that fact.

 

What IS interesting, did this guy have a chance o defend himself in this thread? Before you run off into the hills frothing at the mouth and swearing revenge on the next guy who crosses your path, give this some thought. Tokai has NEVER been a managed mountain, all the attention on new DH tracks is escalating the frustration DH riders are experiencing. Could it be a combination of frustration from having only 600 meters in your stomping ground to enjoy what gives you the most satisfaction, DH, and that you share the trails with every other walk-of-life, who are at present, still entitled to ride where they like without restriction. Rules or no rules, there is no-one on the mountain to enforce this, nor will there ever be anybody appointed to that position. This is up to us, not to react in anger, but to bring other users along with you in the development of the sport.

 

You need to understand that this isolated incident has got you worked up.. sure, but not stopping to educate that rider means he is still out there, oblivious of your point that you have come here to make. Don't lump the rest of us into the same boat, stop and calmly speak to the guy and let him know diplomatically that etiquette is to move out the trail, his friend managed to do it. Ah, this has got me thinking.. was he not startled by your sudden appearance, it happens. The second rider at times only sees the wheel in front of him. He could have been responding to the shock of your sudden appearance. At 50k's/hr you are like a magician to the second rider and the weight and size of a downhiller is nothing to be scoffed at. You sure did make that point.. graphically. I don't want carbon splinters in my XC ass next time I sit in the middle of the DH track to eat my jelly babies.

 

PM me if you want to chat further. I know stuff about Tokai, stuff that affects you!

 

P out

[DJR]

Nah, I don't think there is any particular animosity towards Downhillers. Here on the Hub you get animosity from ALL SIDES. Always remember that this is not the real world, and don't let it get to you too much.

 

Myself, I could describe my type of riding as a blend of All Mountain and Trail, and I promise you, I'v ridden every inch of Tokai for a good few years. I've ridden down everything and up nearly everything.

 

I've been shouted at by a handful of lycra guys. I've had hikers and horse riders shout at me. I've even had a really hot girl shout at me. But I don't recall ever having aggro from a downhiller. I've done the occasional shouting myself, mostly to warn people of my immenent arrival at warp speed.

 

But, and this is really what I think about the whole issue: For every shout I ever got, I got al least a hundred friendly greetings, a few dozen entertaining conversations and once (another) hot girl gave me a hug for catching her when she fell (honest truth).

 

The last lot outweighs the first lot by a few million tons!

[(Deon)]

Headshot - I agree - I ride both DH and XC in Tokai (though am more of an XC fan TBH) and I don't mind moving over for some DHer belting down... I generally also call out how many riders are behind me too - just so he/she knows.

 

My problem is being screamed at by some clown at the top of a run I have just come up telling me I have no right being on "his trail" - we have such a small area of mountain as it is - what a good idea to segregate it into DH and XC cos you know, "We don't like you on our tracks".

 

If people were just civil - move over for the guy who has right of way (and if you can't work that out - it is the guy belting down at 60kph - not you heading up at 20)

and then get back on your bike to head on up again - it isn't gonna hurt your average time.

 

And to you DH'ers - would it really hurt you to pause at the top of a run? really? Is it gonna ruin your day if you have to wait 10 seconds to see if there is someone coming up? no. sorry. it isn't, you take long enough to get up as it is

 

FFS guys lets not get into some stupid argument when we all know what is needed here - just some basic mountain etiquette.

 

OH NO! I am starting to wade through the comments and look what I found. Right of way!!?? NO, not that argument again.. One way of getting this thread longer than a bald man's face is to dig that line out the attic!

 

This issue is not about right of way. Saying right of way quantifies to saying nothing at all on this thread. Right of way is to yield for traffic coming up the mountain. That is a fact, it has been that way since oxen pulled wooden 29er sleds. A downhill track is somewhat different from the right of way point you raise. The clue to the answer points to the name of the sport.

[(Deon)]

Once (another) hot girl gave me a hug for catching her when she fell (honest truth).

 

Hello? You never said that more than one hot girl was dishing out hugs that day? Does your wife know that?

[DJR]

Regrettably, only 1 hug. The other one shouted at me for passing her unexpectedly and startling her.

[(Deon)]

BTW. There are plans for a trail exit for the dudes that ride up that trail. basically it will branch off the trail at about the 3rd jump and exit on the road on the corner where that pile of trees is. (I hope that description works for you guys)

 

There is a trail there already but it's not really rideable in an upward direction. When that gets done the DH only trail will effectively end at the 3rd jump on Vasbyt.

 

No doubt when the trail maintenance day happens to make that happen onetrackmind and all his mates will be elsewhere and the guys doing the digging will the the usual crop of downhillers.

 

I can confirm that this is correct. But I'd like to add that there is some confusion around who is pitching in. On trail building days, mountain bikers do the work. A register is not kept about what discipline the rider is from, who cares!

[onetrackmind]

It's pretty clear that there's some animosity towards DH riders. I'd love to know why. There seem to be a number of XC riders around here who clearly have a chip on their shoulders (one even in Gauteng!). We're going around in circles here and frankly it's a little sad that some people can be so obtuse.

 

We'll need to see to it that the exits of the DH runs are clearly marked as NO ENTRY, however I agree that the culprits who ride up the runs know what they are doing.

 

To those who choose to be chops, know this, I will never waste my energy confronting you about this in order to 'educate you', BUT you will come off second best if there's a collision. I will not put myself in danger by swerving off route and potentially connecting a tree. Most of us wear body armour and have heavy bikes. Your carbon frames will splinter and your lycra is not going to help you much either.

 

See you on the trails.

Hahaha - so the bully is feeling bullied.

 

Gary, you brought the aggro into this debate, you expect people with a different point of view to just roll over? Because you are old, weigh like 2000kg and have body armour?

 

All you have done is made the downhill gang look like a bunch of spoiled brats. To use a word you might understand bette, 'chops'.

 

Fortunately, I know the majority of them aren't, certainly not the ones I have ridden with. Hell, I have even ridden with you, quite a lot, back in the day, and you came across as a level-headed kind of guy. (Yes, this lycra-clad racing snake has dabbled in the DH scene, although without much enjoyment. Walking up hills with my helmet dragging on the front tyre doesn't do it for me ) Your aggression on this thread has really surprised me, I didn't expect it from what I found to be a decent guy. Maybe we have all got older or something.

[(Deon)]

Hahaha - so the bully is feeling bullied.

 

Gary, you brought the aggro into this debate, you expect people with a different point of view to just roll over? Because you are old, weigh like 2000kg and have body armour?

 

All you have done is made the downhill gang look like a bunch of spoiled brats. To use a word you might understand bette, 'chops'.

 

Fortunately, I know the majority of them aren't, certainly not the ones I have ridden with. Hell, I have even ridden with you, quite a lot, back in the day, and you came across as a level-headed kind of guy. (Yes, this lycra-clad racing snake has dabbled in the DH scene, although without much enjoyment. Walking up hills with my helmet dragging on the front tyre doesn't do it for me ) Your aggression on this thread has really surprised me, I didn't expect it from what I found to be a decent guy. Maybe we have all got older or something.

 

Onetrackmind, don't piss him off further. He is right, the [apparent] arrogance of this one guy and a combination of pressure for a dedicated course has emotions running high.. it was just his delivery of his point that sent you guys into flame frenzy.

 

We should consider that DH has been restricted at Tokai for reasons that don't really make sense. Respect each others' discipline and we can all prosper.

 

P

Edited May 24, 2011 by Pain or Shine

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Damn. This really has descended ito a flame contest. Personally, I think my flames are prettiest. They are red & shiny, and occasionally come out of my ass when I see a particularly gnarly section of ST, heavily populated by rocks and random wrong-way-riders.

 

But that's just me.

 

Chill out guys. It really has descended into a "might is right" situation, when that was never the point. Respect the trail. That also means respecting the TYPE of trail it is. If it's a DH trail, don't be surprized when you're flattened by a gentle giant on a 20kg sled after you're coming off a berm on your way UP the DH section. Don't vloek your fellow man when you're both on the trail, going opposite ways. Ask yourself "what would I like to do in THAT person's position?" Carry on on a massive downward trail, trying to hone your skills at high speed? Or carry on slogging on the uphill, trying to turn the cranks 1 rpm faster in your ultimate pursuit of efficiency? Or - ask yourself first. Which would you rather STOP doing? I guarantee that EVERY person here would rather string together an epic section on the way down than try to do the same uphill. The rush is incomparable. And for those that say they like to hone their tech skills on the uphills... how else could you hone your skills faster than remounting on an up, than 30cm before a tech section? Riddle me that...

 

Peace - from an XCDHAMFRer...

Edited May 24, 2011 by cptmayhem

[(Deon)]

Ah, this was bound to come out.. I was on the hill this weekend, the downhill specifically, for maintenance with some DH dudes. All they spoke of was how bad it is for them. Crosscount this and that, not enough trails, the call for Nationals at Tokai.. the list goes on.. I feel for the DH plight but also wonder who bears the grudge. Given, they don't like people breaking down what they have spent time building, but they do not build for themselves, they build for all.

 

Tokai is soo cool, it has elevation and on the doorstep for many. But the truth is this will not be a national event venue. It will not get a national event course, not because Parks won't allow it, or that the XCers don't pitch in to build, but because there are other places where they will be held. From the mouth of energy drink representatives for Africa, "No not Tokai, Giba Gorge or PMB can provide for that type of event." I asked the question and received the answer directly.

 

If however a very big company was to come in with funds and machinery, then things could change.. but do you see that happening when focus is being applied in KZN..?

 

CPT, I'll take a toke of that peace pipe you're smoking. I love it in the middle, but as the saying goes, walk down the middle of the road, get hit from both sides. I love long distance but love ripping the same, why not, I have a bike that will do it all..

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Ah, this was bound to come out.. I was on the hill this weekend, the downhill specifically, for maintenance with some DH dudes. All they spoke of was how bad it is for them. Crosscount this and that, not enough trails, the call for Nationals at Tokai.. the list goes on.. I feel for the DH plight but also wonder who bears the grudge. Given, they don't like people breaking down what they have spent time building, but they do not build for themselves, they build for all.

 

Tokai is soo cool, it has elevation and on the doorstep for many. But the truth is this will not be a national event venue. It will not get a national event course, not because Parks won't allow it, or that the XCers don't pitch in to build, but because there are other places where they will be held. From the mouth of energy drink representatives for Africa, "No not Tokai, Giba Gorge or PMB can provide for that type of event." I asked the question and received the answer directly.

 

If however a very big company was to come in with funds and machinery, then things could change.. but do you see that happening when focus is being applied in KZN..?

 

CPT, I'll take a toke of that peace pipe you're smoking. I love it in the middle, but as the saying goes, walk down the middle of the road, get hit from both sides. I love long distance but love ripping the same, why not, I have a bike that will do it all..

 

That is sooooo uncool. We have so much potential here. The trails will fit. They are almost ready for an event now. Just 1 week of dedicated work will turn them into world class DH trails. If only there were a sponsor. We're already a more premier destination than DBN or JHB will ever be (and I'm a Durbanite by birth - I "ptoooey" on the Stormers and Wee Pee) but it will not come here unless there is a sponsor. Much like the Epic had down here. We've already hosted the prologue in Tokai. Why not a DH nat'l event? It's a winner. So much accessibility. So much spectatorship. So much fun, it shall be.

 

Go and rest my yoda-like ass, I shall.

[(Deon)]

Yeah, I'm outa here too, Master.

 

[LazyTrailRider]

Jeepers, a day passes and I come back to this?

 

I think Pain (or should I call you Shine?) - Haha, had to laugh at my own joke - has the most level-headed approach around here. You're clearly not a monkey, and I echo most of your sentiments.

 

Funny enough, it wasn't long ago that I got out of Gary's way as he came hurtling down this very trail (if it's the Gary onetrackmind thinks it is). I was riding up, like I've done many times. I also happened to get out of the way at the last moment. No, it wasn't me this time. I usually try to give the rider coming down at least 100m worth of berth, but my experience illustrates a very important point: it doesn't matter how observant you think you are, there's always a chance someone is going to catch you unawares. It's then simple really, riding up *is* actually a really bad idea, regardless of whether you're careful over lips and berms, if only for that 1 time out of 100 that you're too tired to pay attention to the object speeding in your direction.

 

I won't ride up the singletrack again, simple as that, as nice a climb as it is. Bombing down (sorta) quickly is what I'll stick to from now on!

 

You guys are lucky to be riding so much, I'm at a stage of my life where I'm busy working on documentation at 2am. Enjoy it!

[Tumbleweed]

Damn. This really has descended ito a flame contest. Personally, I think my flames are prettiest. They are red & shiny, and occasionally come out of my ass when I see a particularly gnarly section of ST, heavily populated by rocks and random wrong-way-riders.

 

Go and rest my yoda-like ass, I shall.

 

Huh? Since when did Yoda have flames coming out of his ass?