32GI

[Nish4]

Been trying it for about a month now and to be totally honest I dont feel it is a miracle product that can change your riding overnight. Two things I dont like about it is the bloated feeling after two bottles (3hr ride) and the sticky residue it leaves on the bike frame when full.. Whasp does not have the above problems.

[MDW]

Nish4 you sure its 32Gi you using it does not get sticky put it on your hands you will see its not like sugar at all. Also for a 3 hour ride you definitely dont need 2 bottles at all that's too much all the best m remember no such thing as a miracle product nutrition training and rest are key

[Aggies]

Also tried this stuff, but it must be specific to specific people.

 

It is definately making my stomach a bit upset - I really like the toilet a couple of hours later.

[Jaco-fiets]

I tried 32gi for the first time in a race this morning. Also changed a few others things even though its suppose to be cardinal sin trying new stuff on race day. I tried 32gi once before in a 3.5hr LSD ride without breakfast and it went fine with just 1 bottle. So i did the following this morning for race

 

Breakfast 06h00 - 50g raw oats with 15g whey protein and bit of skimmed milk

Pre race - started sipping on 1 serving (50g) of 32gi 1hr before event and finished the drink 30min before race.

Race 09h00 - had 1 bottle (50g) 32gi in a 600ml bottle and a small 500ml bottle filled with EAA (essentiale amino acids - apparently bcaa is old school now). Sipped on both during race and last 1hr started taking small sips from my whasp gel flask as well.

 

I am not race fit yet - only started training again constructively beginning of last week after 3months of not doing much. I rode as hard as i could for the 50km race. It was quite technical and taxing. Had a hr avg of 174 over 2h40m and never felt like i was starting to get low on energy. Started cramping at 40km but this is due to body not being use to the intensity.

 

I am very happy and will use this as my race nutrition from now on

 

 

I tried the exact same routine this past wknd in a road race. It was one of the best races of my life. High intensity all the way and i still finished strong. I am convinced!!

[MDW]

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

1. Most investigations found that the consumption of a low glycemic meal prior to physical exercise increased fat oxidation

during endurance exercise irrespective of relative exercise intensity.

 

 

Back to Me:

So basically what we are seeing is that the maltodextrin really is not providing a benefit over and above that of the isomaltulose, we are actually seeing the performances pretty constant, however you have the fat burn. Also glycogen sparing is evident from the testing carried out, we need to carry out independent testing though to quantify this, but this will then show faster recovery and also the ability to really be able to supply energy through the glyocgen even later on in an event.

 

 

So basically, any other low GI energy source can have the same effect of extra fat burning and the effect can not be ascribed to the "active" promotion of 32Gi exclusively ?

 

Nope it is ascribed to the product. Training on water will burn off fat guaranteed, but you wont get the glucose feed when needed. Training with 32Gi gives both, from the testing that was carried out the functional low GI carbs tested, they did not provide the same effect at all. It was either no glucose, or not enough fat oxidization. We don’t own or are able to publish this research but we are permitted to state it on the label as the research is substantiated to health departments, including CE and FDA. We have gone through label approval for the new 2011 laws coming into effect which requires a claim to be substantiated.

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

2. The FAQ graph I did was not accurate I was merely showing the distinction so it was clearer for someone to see, apologies for the confusion.

 

 

So basically what you are saying is that the "data" that you used for the FAQ graph does not exist as shown ?

What I was doing was drawing a picture with my mouse which was tough but it was not about numbers just about visual representation, the graph we have on our website and label on the bottle has been tested 100% and we are entitled to use it as it is accurate. The graph attached with numbers can be used, if that’s what you are looking for.

 

 

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

 

3. The Kj difference is confusing, I think mainly because most products have that per 1 hour we are demonstrating per 2 hours, so generally the feeling is 32Gi does not have enough calories, but based on the ability to access fat stores, we feel that this is a different ball game,

 

 

I think what is confusing, is the fact that you seem to claim the energy of 32Gi per unit mass is somehow more than other products. Energy is energy. What is crucial is how fast it is absorbed and how it is released into the blood. That is why ANY low Gi energy source is better for endurance events due to the slow release. the energy of HIGH Gi products is not lost, it is merely not easily available after a relative short time due to the body releasing high amounts of insulin to convert the high glucose levels in the blood into fat stores. This has the effect of the athlete getting the "bonk" or feeling tired. Those energy is still in the body though, just in a different form.

 

Nicely put I agree with you 100% except we are not claiming that we have more energy per a unit mass, a lot of people out there just assume by reading the amount of Kj on a bottle its either way to little or too much. We are trying to say in simple terms although its not easy to say, its not just about the calories consumed, it’s the type of calories consumed and how the body responds.

 

 

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

4. Again to stress, the research material we have access to is limited, as the testing conducted by the institutes amounted to millions of dollars, they only release certain but solid facts to us and worry about proof later. We have recieved some more thorough documents from them, but we have a non-disclosure meaning we need to sign anyone into this for receiving any more information. Its like Gartner, if you pay you receive if you dont then you can and are unable to distribute. We have a good relationship with them and believe me I drive them nuts daily to get as much out of them as possible. BUT, we as 32Gi are going to be running testing as mentioned above and this will not be held back. We wont test fat oxidization as this has been done. We are going for glycogen effect first. Bare with me you and some others are a flashing red light on the top of my pc, reminding me of this task daily.

 

 

I'll wait patiently then, because until this comes forward it all remains unsubstantiated claims.

Mmmmm, all the claims we have made are actually substantiated, the only one we cannot say unequivocally is how glycogen is and where it is spared. I wont be comfortable with that till its properly tested. BUT with many many athletes tested for recovery, performance and back to back workouts the feedback has very strongly pointed in the direction of exceedingly fast glycogen replenishment. So we know it is happening, now we need to get the calculations and facts on paper.

 

 

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

5. 32Gi is "our" magic formula, we have just done something unique with the presentation of the product, which a lot of companies out there have not accomplished. The child friendly aspect is something we pride ourselves on, as well as the no going off for months aspect and the taste. Isomultulose is not readily available for use in energy drink or related products in SA and a few other countries, we tied down the suppliers with this.

 

 

I can understand your branding and marketing, you do that very well !, but surely consumers need to understand that if they want to mix their own low Gi energy drink that they are able to do so by using the generic Isomaltulose for a lot cheaper. They same way as consumers know they can safely use generic versions of most expensive branded medicines for a lot cheaper.

 

I disagree with the above, our energy drink is in simple terms very cheap, you can do the maths if you want, but it really is. We are providing expensive ingredients, at nearly half the price of a bottle of sugar water. At R5 per an hour of energy I would say we are really not expensive at all, and making ones own drink well, if they want to that’s great.

[Topwine]

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

I disagree with the above, our energy drink is in simple terms very cheap, you can do the maths if you want, but it really is. We are providing expensive ingredients, at nearly half the price of a bottle of sugar water. At R5 per an hour of energy I would say we are really not expensive at all, and making ones own drink well, if they want to that’s great.

 

I am glad you make this comparison, because it illustrates my point perfectly. Yes I agree with you that your competitors' products is essentially sugar(sucrose) water branded as an expensive energy drink. You can buy the sugar and mix your own high GI energy drink far cheaper!

 

But at the same time, the same can be said of your 32Gi. 32Gi is nothing more than the disaccharide called Isomaltulose which is just repackaged and branded as Palatinose, and 32Gi here in SA. you can buy the stuff for R15/kg in bulk and mix your own low GI energy drink instead of paying over R200 / kg for the fancy name and packaging. But then again, you will always get people that have too much money to blow away and don't care what they pay.

[Topwine]

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

1. Most investigations found that the consumption of a low glycemic meal prior to physical exercise increased fat oxidation

during endurance exercise irrespective of relative exercise intensity.

 

 

Back to Me:

So basically what we are seeing is that the maltodextrin really is not providing a benefit over and above that of the isomaltulose, we are actually seeing the performances pretty constant, however you have the fat burn. Also glycogen sparing is evident from the testing carried out, we need to carry out independent testing though to quantify this, but this will then show faster recovery and also the ability to really be able to supply energy through the glyocgen even later on in an event.

 

 

So basically, any other low GI energy source can have the same effect of extra fat burning and the effect can not be ascribed to the "active" promotion of 32Gi exclusively ?

 

Nope it is ascribed to the product. Training on water will burn off fat guaranteed, but you wont get the glucose feed when needed. Training with 32Gi gives both, from the testing that was carried out the functional low GI carbs tested, they did not provide the same effect at all. It was either no glucose, or not enough fat oxidization. We don’t own or are able to publish this research but we are permitted to state it on the label as the research is substantiated to health departments, including CE and FDA. We have gone through label approval for the new 2011 laws coming into effect which requires a claim to be substantiated.

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

 

I have studied this subject the last couple of weeks, and according to my wife's physiology handbook, fat is only burned effeciently if burned together with a certain amount of glucose. So in essence you are right, but it is not the glucose of 32Gi per se that is necessarily the requirement. Any other glucose source providing the "right" amount can have the same effect. By claiming that the effect is exclusively or specific to the product of 32 Gi, is either false or misleading. Again, by not making these so called "research" available for public scrutiny, these claims remain unsubstantiated. It is especially relevant to see what "functional low Gi products was tested against 32Gi, how much was used and under what methods and conditions, etc, etc.

 

Further the FDA label approvals only goes as far as stating that the product is "Generally regarded as safe", because it is essentially a sugar in the form of a disaccharide. This does NOT mean the FDA approve the product as a means of fat burning !

[Topwine]

MDW, on 13 September 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

So basically what you are saying is that the "data" that you used for the FAQ graph does not exist as shown ?

What I was doing was drawing a picture with my mouse which was tough but it was not about numbers just about visual representation, the graph we have on our website and label on the bottle has been tested 100% and we are entitled to use it as it is accurate. The graph attached with numbers can be used, if that’s what you are looking for.

 

Again, comparing the "new", 3rd graph you have provided with the one on your website:

It shows you only will have a benefit of higher blood sugar with 32Gi after 90 minutes compared with other competing high GI glucose products. The graph on the website shows the benefit achieved after 60 minutes. This is a huge discrepancy surely? You said in your post I can rely on the last graph, does this mean your graph on the website is wrong ?

[MDW]

I am glad you make this comparison, because it illustrates my point perfectly. Yes I agree with you that your competitors' products is essentially sugar(sucrose) water branded as an expensive energy drink. You can buy the sugar and mix your own high GI energy drink far cheaper!

 

But at the same time, the same can be said of your 32Gi. 32Gi is nothing more than the disaccharide called Isomaltulose which is just repackaged and branded as Palatinose, and 32Gi here in SA. you can buy the stuff for R15/kg in bulk and mix your own low GI energy drink instead of paying over R200 / kg for the fancy name and packaging. But then again, you will always get people that have too much money to blow away and don't care what they pay.

Topwine, thanks for the observation, but I need to just stress something of importance, yes anyone can go out and make an energy drink. We are definitely not just a repackaged Palatinose, yes we use it but we have other ingredients which make up important factors of our drink. However, not everyone has the time and effort to go and make a suitable energy drink, and we do the best we can. For us the most important things lie elsewhere, lets see what happens when someone buys 32Gi:

 

1. The Sports Trust of South Africa gets money to assist poor communities by uplifting them through sport.

2. Disadvantaged talented athletes, whose only dream in this world is to make a living through their passion, are supported and guided by us.

3. 32Gi goes around from school to school with no cost advising parents and children on healthy nutrition

4. We support disabled athletes

5. We provide all our energy and efforts in helping others around us, live healthier more energetic lives.

6. We all assist in sponsoring events to make sure that they happen that you all can ride and race, because organization does take time effort and money.

7. We live, eat, breathe and preach health, not for us, we already live it, but for those around us, because we believe that people need to be empowered to make better nutritional choices.

 

Its not just about making an energy drink making money, for us this is a responsibility, a passion, and our goal is to give back to the communities and people, in a way that we know best, this is what drives us, and this is what we are passionate about.

 

all the best

Mark

[MDW]

Again, comparing the "new", 3rd graph you have provided with the one on your website:

It shows you only will have a benefit of higher blood sugar with 32Gi after 90 minutes compared with other competing high GI glucose products. The graph on the website shows the benefit achieved after 60 minutes. This is a huge discrepancy surely? You said in your post I can rely on the last graph, does this mean your graph on the website is wrong ?

The graph on the website was provided to us by Palatinose and because they supply us we are entitled to use it, the other graph was also provided in a presentation by them, different graphics and different graphic artist doing them but Topwine they are exactly the same, the numbers are not different, the graphs both represent the sucrose line, or maltodextrin line, that black glucose line is a measurement of blood glucose but not with a drink or meal consumption only the green line. When we labeled they told us to only use the two lines because that was the tested consumption only.

[MDW]

I have studied this subject the last couple of weeks, and according to my wife's physiology handbook, fat is only burned effeciently if burned together with a certain amount of glucose. So in essence you are right, but it is not the glucose of 32Gi per se that is necessarily the requirement. Any other glucose source providing the "right" amount can have the same effect. By claiming that the effect is exclusively or specific to the product of 32 Gi, is either false or misleading. Again, by not making these so called "research" available for public scrutiny, these claims remain unsubstantiated. It is especially relevant to see what "functional low Gi products was tested against 32Gi, how much was used and under what methods and conditions, etc, etc.

 

Further the FDA label approvals only goes as far as stating that the product is "Generally regarded as safe", because it is essentially a sugar in the form of a disaccharide. This does NOT mean the FDA approve the product as a means of fat burning !

I am merely claiming, and not me personally, but from the guidelines we were provided that Palatinose oxidizes at a much higher and more efficient rate than the other carbohydrates and the number we received was a 28% difference which is substantial, this they proved and claimed openly in public, Freiburg University will not allow the report to be published openly, but its an approved claim abroad and we can use it. Germany is very pedantic on labeling laws and claims, we had ours verified and reviewed by them knowing South African law is far less strict, they told us exactly what we could and could not say as far as claims go, and we abide by this.

[Topwine]

The graph on the website was provided to us by Palatinose and because they supply us we are entitled to use it, the other graph was also provided in a presentation by them, different graphics and different graphic artist doing them but Topwine they are exactly the same, the numbers are not different, the graphs both represent the sucrose line, or maltodextrin line, that black glucose line is a measurement of blood glucose but not with a drink or meal consumption only the green line. When we labeled they told us to only use the two lines because that was the tested consumption only.

 

No Mark, the graphs are not "exactly the same". The one compares 32Gi with only sucrose, and the other one compares 32Gi with BOTH sucrose and glucose. The Glucose graph is the base graph used by all standardized tests of food sources to determine their GI index.

 

Palatinose only told you to use the graph showing 32Gi relative to sucrose, as it makes for better marketing, and that most people won't probably notice the distinction ! The fact that remains is that you must compare your product against ALL competing products, not just those that shows better on the graphs. In this case 32Gi only starts to perform better after more than 90 minutes compared to glucose as energy source.

[Sharkie 2]

I have been using 32Gi over the last three months, two tubs of them in both raspberry and lime flavour.

I only use it on my longer rides say 2.5 hours and more.

 

Must say that while I am on the bike it doesn't feel any different to me than other products like PVM(which I am still a big fan of) but its after my rride where I feel the difference. I don't have a craving for something sweet or to eat out my whole fridge. I also don't feel extremely tired after our normal 150km ride every three weeks while using 32Gi and their chews.

 

Really nice stuff this and affordable too

[MDW]

No Mark, the graphs are not "exactly the same". The one compares 32Gi with only sucrose, and the other one compares 32Gi with BOTH sucrose and glucose. The Glucose graph is the base graph used by all standardized tests of food sources to determine their GI index.

 

Palatinose only told you to use the graph showing 32Gi relative to sucrose, as it makes for better marketing, and that most people won't probably notice the distinction ! The fact that remains is that you must compare your product against ALL competing products, not just those that shows better on the graphs. In this case 32Gi only starts to perform better after more than 90 minutes compared to glucose as energy source.

Topwine I am really trying to understand what your agenda is here, we are not false marketing we are providing all the information we can, about our product, how it works and the feedback from thousands of people has been really good. I am not a medical doctor or a scientist, I am trying to understand what we are doing wrong in your eyes except trying to help people do the best they can.

 

Our benefit in the graph whether compared to glucose(which red bull uses) or sucrose is actually from minute 1 not minute 90 as you point out, because you dont get the spike, the overload of glucose into the blood stream and we guarantee 2 hours. We also dont dip below the base, and thats all the graph is there to demonstrate, nothing more, its a reflection of high GI vs low GI. We dont go out and compare product to product and put down other products, we claim :

 

- Zero Spiking

- 2 hours guaranteed energy, no more, go and look at our labeling, no falseness at all.

- No Nausea

- No need for frequent feeds and top up like with high GI products

 

What product in the market gives 90 minutes without a feed?

 

There are many companies out there advocating low GI we are one of them and we believe this to be the way of the future, no matter what a doctor, scientist or anyone says.

 

We are opposed to high GI its as simple as that, we are sick of the increase in ADHD, obesity, lack of energy, quick fixes highs and lows. We have brought a product to market which caters not just for the pro athlete but for children as well. We are not hiding behind any curtains or trying to find the next best thing, we are simply out here exposing people to a healthier choice, and we know it works well.

 

Why don't you go out, take a tub or packet of chews, and try it, what have you got to lose ;-)

 

all the best

Mark

[Topwine]

Topwine I am really trying to understand what your agenda is here, we are not false marketing we are providing all the information we can, about our product, how it works and the feedback from thousands of people has been really good. I am not a medical doctor or a scientist, I am trying to understand what we are doing wrong in your eyes except trying to help people do the best they can.

 

Our benefit in the graph whether compared to glucose(which red bull uses) or sucrose is actually from minute 1 not minute 90 as you point out, because you dont get the spike, the overload of glucose into the blood stream and we guarantee 2 hours. We also dont dip below the base, and thats all the graph is there to demonstrate, nothing more, its a reflection of high GI vs low GI. We dont go out and compare product to product and put down other products, we claim :

 

- Zero Spiking

- 2 hours guaranteed energy, no more, go and look at our labeling, no falseness at all.

- No Nausea

- No need for frequent feeds and top up like with high GI products

 

What product in the market gives 90 minutes without a feed?

 

There are many companies out there advocating low GI we are one of them and we believe this to be the way of the future, no matter what a doctor, scientist or anyone says.

 

We are opposed to high GI its as simple as that, we are sick of the increase in ADHD, obesity, lack of energy, quick fixes highs and lows. We have brought a product to market which caters not just for the pro athlete but for children as well. We are not hiding behind any curtains or trying to find the next best thing, we are simply out here exposing people to a healthier choice, and we know it works well.

 

Why don't you go out, take a tub or packet of chews, and try it, what have you got to lose ;-)

 

all the best

Mark

 

Dear Mark

 

As I have stated previously, there is 2 sides to you. The one that I respects and appreciate is the one that gives his knowledge about nutrition and training to people on this forum to benefit from. I don't question all the motives you have mentioned to help people.

 

But, there is your other side, as the marketer of 32Gi as a product, a very expensive product, that warrants fair comment and answers to inconsistent marketing made by you on this public forum as a free choice and used effectively to market your product.

 

The facts are the facts. You have provided 3 graphs without disclaimers. Everytime I have shown the inconsistencies, you have provided the "disclaimers" afterwards. Tell me, does your label and website only show the "graph", or does it also say that it is only for showing that it does not drop below the base? I can also point to the fact the the data points on the 2 graphs differ for your own product, but I think I have made my case.

 

I don't dispute that 32Gi is a good product for CERTAIN uses, especially longer endurance type events. But is it necessarily better than glucose products for events shorter than 90 minutes? I don't think so.

 

And the real issue is whether it is worth the huge cost and premium over an commodity type product like Isomaltulose, which is essentially the same thing? Again, I don't think so. And if all I have achieved is to make people aware of these facts and people still decide afterwards they want to buy your expensive product instead of cheaper generic versions of the same thing, then I think we both achieved what we set out to do.

[Gobbo]

Topwine you really do whine allot

I have been using 32gi for almost a year now and swear by the stuff , and yes I train pretty hard and try watch what I eat , ask any pro athlete and they will tell you that nutrition and training is key , 32gi unlocks the door.

 

Where else on the hub have you come accross a person who is prepared to share their advice and knowledge so openly about their product MDW is very transparent and is not hiding anything from anyone.

 

Im my opinion you have a problem , maybe your wifes books can help you.

If you dont like the product return it for a refund as stated on the packaging , or have you used it all?