Good recovery drink/shake

[Topwine]

Soy protein from the health isle at Pick n Pay, frozen yoghurt, pudding spoon of peanut butter, cashew nuts, pudding spoon or two of choc nesquick.

 

Will do the same trick as the expensive shakes and you can be sure there are no "hidden banned" substances in it as some of the products on our shelves do.

This type of advice can only come from an engineer. Simple, effective and economic !

[rouxtjie]

of course the more natural you eat the better, definitely an impala has far more benefit than beef :-), the less processed, the more natural, the more you have as nature intended it to be, the better off you will be. I think as humans if we look at the food industry in general, we have created our own worst enemy in food, we have brought about terrible diseases, allergies, fatigue, emotional instability, diabetes, heart issues, and obesity, we only have ourselves to blame the food industry is one massive money making machine. In our stressed lives people look to take outs and fast foods, less time is spent in the kitchen and more time is spent on what people call the quick fix, society has lost touch with good wholesome health foods, and those that are trying to stick to it are looked down upon, the comment "u only live once u mind as well enjoy it" is a popular statement, but we are killing ourselves and our children, and I cannot but think that we should be wiser to play the percentages game properly, meaning, keep the higher % of your food choices in the healthy zone, and spoil once in a while, but really look after your engine its all you have thats actually worthwhile, and if you have children look after theirs as well :-).

Yes, 100% impala is a leaner meat so is guinea fowl, we were meant to eat them but I think also hunt them(don't want to open the hunters vs non-hunters can here, just pointing out that we expended energy in doing so...boesman style, not from a bakkie with 303), seeds and nuts are also a heatlhy source of proteins and fats. We currently live on refined grains and "engineered proteins" like battery chickens and cows that live in camps eating the same grains we farm...not that natural, I agree and get it. However its difficult and expensive to shop for exclusively natural(lean free range animal proteins...ostrich, venison etc) and organic carbs. I thus eat like a normal everyday person...steak, chips and mielies and a glass of choc milk for desert.

 

Am I also right in saying then that these supplements in your eyes are bullcrap because I don't know of a 32GI tree, USN Epic pro beans or Hammer buck?

[davetapson]

Milkman I worked overseas on a farm dairy for 2 yrs, the cows never gave birth ;-) go figure :-),

 

Wouldn't have believed this myself (and I have an agricultural degree), and have never heard of it happening in SA (not that I've been involved in the dairy industry here for many years). But it seems that it may be possible:

 

THE discovery by Folley and his co-workers that treatment with diethylstilbœstrol alone will induce copious lactation in virgin goats1 and heifers2 has recently been confirmed for the goat by Lewis and Turner3. Since the administration of a crude extract of ox anterior pituitary gland strikingly stimulates the milk production of the cow during the normal decline of lactation4, it was of importance to determine if the production of milk resulting from treatment with diethylstilbcestrol could be further increased by injections of anterior pituitary extract.

 

Apparently easier with some breeds than others - Jerseys etc.

 

DeanBean - you here? What do you say?

[rouxtjie]

Fresh blood, crickets, cicadas, frogs, hatchlings, lizards, green fruit (got to eat it before the monkeys / worms / birds get to it...), snakes, mice, rats, squirrels, eggs of various degrees of fertilisation / growth. Raw liver, derms, eyeballs.

 

Remember 'seeds' (maize / wheat / barley) did not exist in their modern form in the 'good old days' - they looked more like grass seed, and if anyone has tasted teff, which is pap made from grass seed (an Ethiopian staple like pap is here), you'll know it's not completely tasty. And is full of grit.

 

Careful when it comes to extrapolating backwards...

 

I am with you and agree wrt to this, I was actually talking about the same thing. The masai tribes are prime example of natural living, drinks blood and makes that pap that you are talking about, looks freakin horrible and they live to a 100 and plenty.

 

Corn is the evil...everything we eat gets made from it, eats it or gets fertilized with it...Great docu on discovery about it a while ago

Edited December 8, 2011 by rouxtjie

[Tumbleweed]

DeanBean - you here? What do you say?

 

I do know that his wife doesn't like the fresh farm stuff…

[MDW]

Something I thought you all might find very interesting, one of my pro athletes whom I help with nutrition mentioned a product he was taking, I removed the brand of course, but i never knew the actual product intimately to provide a constructive comment so I went to the pharmacy to have a look at the ingredients, well of course he never read the label properly, i looked at the ingredients first and thought ????? then i went further down and saw the nice bold statement in the picture below, wow, the fact that this and many others like this are actually on the shelves is a disgrace, a 2 yr suspension would have visited this athlete with traces in his system, how can this be ethical, how many banned products are you consuming? do you actually know? just because it does not have the bold statement does not mean its safe :-).

 

Later

M

[Milkman]

Milkman I worked overseas on a farm dairy for 2 yrs, the cows never gave birth ;-) go figure :-),

Hi

Not to get into a heated debate here , but as you can see from my name , I am in the dairy industry , and have been for the past 25 years . Yes I know that it is possible to get a cow , or any other mammel to produce milk by manipulating them with hormones . But , like in any business , you will have to have a reason to do so ( that is if you don't morally or for whatever other reason have a problem with it ) , and as in any business it will have to make financial sense .

In the USA only about 17 % of dairy cows are being injected with rBST ( which is approved by the Food and Drugs adminastration in the US )and in SA only about 4 % of dairy cows are being injected with rBST . The reason for the low numbers ; probably because most farmers ( unlike what you think of them ) know that their cows are their livelyhood and therefore treat their animals really as well as they possibly can . In all honesty , even if there were farmers that didn't care , it just makes no financial sence , because the injections are pretty expensive , and the farmers are not getting that much for their milk , therefore the increase in yield is not so significant as to make up for the cost of the injection .

As to your statement about cows not giving birth , and starting to produce milk :

Once again , you will need a reason if you want to manipulate them , and once again ( appart from the morral and other issues ) it doesn't make financial sense .

You see , a calve is worth a lot of money to a farmer . Farmers keep their bull calves to sell later for their meat ( an ox of about 14 - 18 months will bring in between R 7000 to R 9000 ) , and they keep their heifers ( females ) to replenish their herd .

Therefore if you can show me one farmer in SA that won't look after their calves , and make sure their cows give birth every year , I will show you a farmer that will not last one year in the industry .

It is dangerous to pass on opinions as facts , 'cause some people might read them and be misled .

[MDW]

Hi

Not to get into a heated debate here , but as you can see from my name , I am in the dairy industry , and have been for the past 25 years . Yes I know that it is possible to get a cow , or any other mammel to produce milk by manipulating them with hormones . But , like in any business , you will have to have a reason to do so ( that is if you don't morally or for whatever other reason have a problem with it ) , and as in any business it will have to make financial sense .

In the USA only about 17 % of dairy cows are being injected with rBST ( which is approved by the Food and Drugs adminastration in the US )and in SA only about 4 % of dairy cows are being injected with rBST . The reason for the low numbers ; probably because most farmers ( unlike what you think of them ) know that their cows are their livelyhood and therefore treat their animals really as well as they possibly can . In all honesty , even if there were farmers that didn't care , it just makes no financial sence , because the injections are pretty expensive , and the farmers are not getting that much for their milk , therefore the increase in yield is not so significant as to make up for the cost of the injection .

As to your statement about cows not giving birth , and starting to produce milk :

Once again , you will need a reason if you want to manipulate them , and once again ( appart from the morral and other issues ) it doesn't make financial sense .

You see , a calve is worth a lot of money to a farmer . Farmers keep their bull calves to sell later for their meat ( an ox of about 14 - 18 months will bring in between R 7000 to R 9000 ) , and they keep their heifers ( females ) to replenish their herd .

Therefore if you can show me one farmer in SA that won't look after their calves , and make sure their cows give birth every year , I will show you a farmer that will not last one year in the industry .

It is dangerous to pass on opinions as facts , 'cause some people might read them and be misled .

Milkman question then? and not trying to mislead people, just mentioned what I have personal experience with when living abroad.

Why is it that cows have naturally high hormone levels and that is a fact, RBST might not be used any more which I did mention earlier, but even chatting to the food technologists at Woolworths they openly admit they cannot state there are no hormones in their milk, only that they have not added any RBST. Are the animals here fed any other form of of non natural substances including antibiotics etc.

[davetapson]

You got to be careful when you start talking about cows having horomone levels. Of course they have horomones. So do you. You full of testosterone. You're a male. Cows will have hormones managing all their biological processes as well. They will be female hormones of the type a lactating female will have. Oxytocin and stuff if I can remember back 25yrs.

 

The question is: do they have artificial hormones, and are these expressed in the milk? I can only speak for the local industry, but anything that costs (e.g. fancy hormones) comes off your bottom line. I've never heard of the type of dairy that you speak of in SA, and it's dangerous to draw comparisons.

 

Body builders who get 'bitch-tits' don't get it from milk. I seem to remember it's actually from testosterone or human growth hormone. They get it as a result of the gross amount of strange hormones that they subject themselves to.

 

"Pure glandular gynecomastia is common in bodybuilders and is thought to be a result of the use of anabolic steroids.[7]" Wikipedia.

 

To try and draw comparisons with someone using milk as a recovery drink is... erm... (this is after a christmas 'lunch', give me a hand here)... not right.

Edited December 8, 2011 by davetapson

[Topwine]

 

Why is it that cows have naturally high hormone levels and that is a fact, RBST might not be used any more which I did mention earlier, but even chatting to the food technologists at Woolworths they openly admit they cannot state there are no hormones in their milk, only that they have not added any RBST. Are the animals here fed any other form of of non natural substances including antibiotics etc.

 

Isn't hormones a natural substance ? Are ALL hormones bad? Why would the mere fact of the existence of hormones (ANY) in milk be bad ?

 

The majority of the posters on this forum's hormone levels are way higher than normal !

[rouxtjie]

@MDW, think you missed my question earlier?

 

"Am I also right in saying then that these supplements in your eyes are bullcrap because I don't know of a 32GI tree, USN Epic pro beans or Hammer buck?"

[Topwine]

You got to be careful when you start talking about cows having horomone levels. Of course they have horomones. So do you. You full of testosterone. You're a male. Cows will have hormones managing all their biological processes as well. They will be female hormones of the type a lactating female will have. Oxytocin and stuff if I can remember back 25yrs.

 

The question is: do they have artificial hormones, and are these expressed in the milk? I can only speak for the local industry, but anything that costs (e.g. fancy hormones) comes off your bottom line. I've never heard of the type of dairy that you speak of in SA, and it's dangerous to draw comparisons.

 

Body builders who get 'bitch-tits' don't get it from milk. I seem to remember it's actually from testosterone or human growth hormone. They get it as a result of the gross amount of strange hormones that they subject themselves to.

 

"Pure glandular gynecomastia is common in bodybuilders and is thought to be a result of the use of anabolic steroids.[7]" Wikipedia.

 

To try and draw comparisons with someone using milk as a recovery drink is... erm... (this is after a christmas 'lunch', give me a hand here)... not right.

 

Some very good point you make here.

[davetapson]

I also seem to remember that you (MDW) may well have Oxytocin (just as lactating females have) as it is the hormone released after orgasm, providing the 'Post Orgamsic Glow'.

 

It provides the 'attraction' in pair bonding, and explains why a good sex life often leads to a good relationship...

 

Like I said, you got to be careful when talking about hormones...

Edited December 8, 2011 by davetapson

[davetapson]

Who said farmers know nothing..?

[Milkman]

The food tech at Woollies was correct when they stated that they cannot test for rBST in their milk , as BST is naturally found in all milk ( no , not because of artificial hormones ).The injection of rBST that some cows receive , is in fact a protein based rBST , so not steroid based , and cannot be destinguised from natural BST in lab testing. Farmers have to give sworn statements to their milk buyers that they are not using rBST , and that is the only way to know wich farmers use rBST . Of course you can also find out quite easily fro the reps that sells it , so no use in lying about it .

I have quickly phoned the milk producers orginization ( 012 8435600 ) to make sure that I might not miss something here , but can assure you that there is no other steroid , or hormone in the country that I am aware of , or that they are aware of , that are being used in dairy cows for whatever reason . If you are aware of any ( AND HAVE PROOF ) I will be glad to hear about it . ( Who knows , might make some extra money - ha,ha )

It is a pity that some people give milk such a bad rap , seeing that honey and milk are the only 2 natural foods found in nature . Everything else ( whatever fruit , veg , or meat you can think of ) is for reproduction .

It might also help if you go read about soya , and how much genetic manipulation is being done there .

Edited December 8, 2011 by Milkman

[Topwine]

Who said farmers know nothing..?

Ok, you made your point. No go and ride off your excess of Christmas lunch and then go attend to your cows !