no helmet

[linnega]

Lets try stay on topic - comparing bicycle helmets with seatbelts, baby seats, motorcycle helmets and other proven safety devices is a pointless exercise.

 

As for why I refer to UK websites, you answered your own question, we don't have any advocacy groups. Thing is though, peoples' head are peoples' head on whatever continent. So the research should translate pretty well. Bike lanes are irrelevant to the discussion as the research indicates that helmets are ineffective, so the number of times you fall has no bearing.

 

Can't really see where the comment that I should move to the UK comes from. I am proudly African and proudly South African, but that doesn't we can't use the learnings on other continents to improve what we have here.

 

 

 

[Pantani]

Who the heck is Gary Beneke anyway? And why should he be an example to me, or any fun rider for that matter? 

[Groot Lem]

When we started racing we didnt have to wear helmets. We never trained with helmets, after about 28 years of cycling one of my friends/training buddies was almost killed by a drunk driver. With his helmet. Out of respect for him (and a bit because the roads are verrry busy) I am now riding with a helmet.

About once a month if I ride on my own, at a time when I know the roads are not busy I wont put a helmet on. We didnt grow up with helmets while cycling, for most of the oldies its just that.  I've done about 300 rides for 25 years, 7500 rides without a helmet. Now we must put it on. Not so easy to change. But i will never tell someone to get lost that doesnt wear a helmet. I AM PRO CHOICE! But if Latrinus flies down a fast singletrack without a helmet I think he is crazy.

But we see too many cyclists WITH helmets riding outside the yellow line, jumping red robots. Surely thats more dangerous?

PRO CHOICE

[ewep]

linnega, please give me the evidence on seat belts as I can contradict it with proven "evidence" that seat belts cause deaths during accidents.  You are (as you mostly do) only quoting what you want to get across, and hiding the rest.

 

Bike lanes are actually hugely relevant.  The speed at which the lanes are used and the way in which they are used gives a clear indication of the "fear factor" involved in cycling there vs. cycling here!

 

My comment on the UK and other countries is quite easy to explain.  Every time we speak about something that you classify as a "no brainer", you refer back to some obscure, never before heard of lobby group in the UK that has "researched" some or the other CRAP and that is then proclaimed as "the law".  Move there and sell them their shyte back to them.

 

[davetapson]

You know what?  If you want to take the risk of not wearing a helmet, that's your problem.

 

Personally, when I grew up (a great many years ago) I survived 18 years of riding, never once with a helmet (because they hadn't been invented yet) and amazingly enough, apparently, survived. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, I'm happy not to wear a helmet if I'm popping around the corner to run an errand, but if I'm doing anything more serious, then it's appropriate to wear a helmet. 

 

Somebody here is going to say 'ja but you could fall over on the way to the kaffee too..!!"  So I could fall over while I'm walking - must I wear a helmet then too??

 

I'd do the same thing on a motorcyle if I could... if I'm going to the kaffee, I'd go in t shirt and shorts and no helmet.  Anything else and it's full protective gear.

 

In Florida they've got a great law.  You don't have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle as long as you have US100 000 cover in medical insurance.  You weigh up the risks, and you make your choice.  Me, I paid up and tossed the helmet.  And to me, the risk was worth the pleasure.  And you'd better believe how much more cautiously you drive!!  It's not something I'd do all the time, tho.

 

I remember an interview I heard in the UK with the chief traffic cop from New York.  When asked what he thought about compulsory seat belt laws, his comment was "They are the worst thing out.  Seat belts should be banned, and all cars should have a steel spike pointing at the drivers heart.  Then you'd see how carefully people would drive...." 

 

And I'm sorry.  I just don't buy the "if we act like cars, people will respect us and not knock us over BS"  We're on bikes, and we're different, exactly as pedestrians are different to both bikes and cars - not least of we need to be so much more aware and defensive.  Ride out into the middle of an intersection and wait for the oncoming traffic to pass so we can turn?  Not a chance mate... but you know what?  If you want to do it, I'm not gonna stop you.

[Icycling]

Groot Lem - what wrong with riding outside the yellow line? I am not sure when you last you road up Constantia nek - Hout Bay side - but the idoit put those huge steal cat eyes inside the yellow line which makes it imppossible to ride comfortably inside the yellow line - so a legal road user on the road (wearing a helmet) I choose to ride on the road - at any rate by law I have up till the white line and by law a motorist should not in theory be over taking a cyclist on a solid white line!

 

 

 

Sometimes I feel us cyclist have been way to considerate to motorist for staying as far left as possible and now motorist feel it is their right to speed past cyclist who are just been considerate by stay left! Which if you drive on the high ways you will notice the slow lane is normally the quickest as when people climb into their cars they seem to loose all their considerate habits - I assume they had some to start off with.

 

 

 

Basically our motorist in this country are not educated correctly all round and licences are handed out way to easily and hopefully sooner not later the drivers tests will be a lot harder for motorist to get licence as in Europe for example

[AttieSlabbert]

Guys and Gals

There are actually websites against wearing a helmet. We started designing a better and safer helmet (should be finished early next year) and I was doing research and came across a few- look at this for example

http://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html Some even say that helmets cause the most problems and injuries. I agree that some helmet's design features are not safe and some are safer than others, but it is still better than to bang your head on the tarmac!!!!

After reading through it and study it, I still don't think it is safer without a helmet.

So - you'll see a safer helmet and cooler helmet soon!!

[slowpoke]

ok, so i've missed most of the debate here, but i'm still gonna have my say... big up to all supporting the use of helmets. i could quite easily dig up the pics of me at last year's amashova... if it hadn't been for that atmos i WOULD have had to have extensive plastic surgery to reconstruct my face and the chances are that i would NOT have been mentally fit to land the great new job i've just got.

 

linnega, you DO keep dredging up obscure research to argue against safety measures so don't try wriggle your way out of admitting it. it's something you've always done. the road conditions in rsa are different to the uk, the laws pertaining to road use are different, etc etc etc so give it up or move over there. for each and every report stating that helmets (both bicycle and motorbike) aren't worth it there is pure simple scientific fact to show that the helmet disperses a large amount of the impact before your brain cells start getting mushed up. this hardcore fact is further supported by the best testing methods out there - experimentation and observation -  look at the outcome of accidents where the rider has had a helmet on as opposed to those where the rider has not had a helmet on. if you still wish to argue perhaps you can demonstrate to us that you don't need a helmet when you crash at 50-60kmph? i'm sure you'll have lots of us there to observe and learn from your example.

 

as to the situation in holland - yes, the slower commuter riders don't wear helmets.... they ride at maybe 20kmph on flat roads with no danger posed by cars. in those circumstances i wouldn't wear a helmet either. but i know myself and if i can go faster i will go faster, if i can try test my bikes ability to fly i do so, and why the hell should i brake on downhills, etc, etc, etc????? so yeah, i'll always wear a helmet.

 

as to GB riding without a helmet - let's find out if it was him cos i've never seen him doing so. RH is another story but no-one complains about him, the great international rider... *sigh*

 

[linnega]

Perhaps I need to rephrase the point - please point me in the direction of the research that confirms the efficacy of helmets, "obscure" or otherwise (although all research would probably be obscure as emotional opinion/accepted wisdom is generally given more weight than proper research on all issues).

 

As for the rest of the arguments, lets stay away from anecdotal evidence because it can neither be confirmed or refuted, and is mostly based on the opinion of either the rider or one medical practitioner.

 

Slowpoke, your comment about testing the efficacy through a real life situation hits the nail on the head, but works both ways. You need to recreate both helmeted and helmetless crashes in exactly the same conditions to properly test efficacy, and you need to repeat it multiple times. I am sure you will get no takers for a helmeted crash at 50kph so the point is kind of mute.

 

As for road conditions - both you and Ewep are spot on, road conditions are different in different countries, but tar is still tar, rocks are rocks and heads are heads.

[slowpoke]

linnega, i've already done the helmeted crash at about 58kmph on tar so that's one down, there are many others here who've also already done helmeted crashes... so we just need you to do the non-helmeted crash to compare.

[ewep]

And as we keep on saying linnega, you post and regurgitate what you

want people to read.  Here are some of my "findings" on doing a basic

search on the net:

 

 

 

"The report concluded that 'good' hardshell helmets would prevent 90% of the deaths due to head injury in a group similar to the unhelmeted group in the study."

 

"There were 78 head impacts reported, with 8 of the cyclists involved wearing helmets. These 8 were compared to 24 unhelmeted cyclists involved in similar accidents. Only two of the helmeted cyclists were admitted to hospital compared with 15 - 17 of the unhelmeted ones."

 

There is more in this article, I just scanned it quickly as it's a summary of quite a few pieces of research.

 

(http://www.rospa.org.uk/roadsafety/info/cycle_helmets.pdf)

 

 

 

This site throws a HELLUVA spanner into the works of all the helmet sites you keep on pointing us to.

 

http://www.helmets.org/negativs.htm

 

 

 

And lastly read the little blocks at the bottom:

 

"Head and brain injury, and death. (2 deaths in unhelmeted cyclists, no deaths in helmeted group)."

 

http://depts.washington.edu/hiprc/practices/topic/bicycles/helmeteffect.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you should stop belittling the people who don't agree with you.  Maybe stop pointing all and sundry to one or 2 sites.  Search for "research to prove cycling helmets are needed" and read and you will have MORE than enough RESEARCHED evidence (not anecdotal) of the LIFE SAVING properties of CYCLING helmets!

 

[Jason]

Forget helmets people... Lets all wear our Christmas hats and have a Merry Christmas... Ho ho ho...

[linnega]

Will have a look at the references quoted. Can't from my phone I'm afraid.

 

Apologies if you find my tone belittling - definitely not my intention. Enjoy Christmas eve one and all.

[ewep]

Thanks and the same to you linnega.

[steve]

wanna know something about helmets you never would have given a thought about.

 

They can also prevent drowning. In 2003 I sailed gracefully over the bars into an old quarry full of funny murky water about 1.5m deep and guess what .......... the helmet kept my head afloat until I figured out which way was up or down.

 

Bet that's a safety point about helmets no one knew - now you know why mtbers should always wear a helmet!!!

 

Sometimes rocks fall out the sky as well ............ but I don't think that's why we have to wear a helmet at the Crater Cruise!!!

 

Goodnight and merry xmas!!!!

[GaryKZN]

Hey Linnege

 

You love this subject, don't you !!!!!!!!!! and no one is going to change your mind. Your responce to this shocks me quite a bit as I have a lot of respect for your input on this website !!!!!!

 

 I don't often respond to much on this website but I read just about everything....you know that and i'm sure you know who I am, I know who you are and follow your results !!!!!!!!!

 

Let me tell you a story ...... I have a 22 year old son, well know in KZN elite cycling who was involved in a genuine cycling accident at the SuperCycling race in Edenvale about 3 years ago. There was a rock in the road and the kids to evasive action with warning there fellow cyclists and he was taken out by the guy infront of him .....speed 55km/hr he landed on his NUT and his Giro saved his life !!!!!!! Fortunatly the only other damage was a broken collar bone. To make matters worse I to was also riding and had covered some 15kms when the phone call came thru....

 

Don't wait till it happens to you before you change your mind !!!!!

 

There are many other stories I can quote !!!! Don't add feul to the fire !!!!!

 

Regards

 

Gary