POWER METERS: Crank, Hub or Pedal-based?

[Jaco-fiets]

What does the power to max unit go for?

 

Anybody here use the ibike newton? Opinions?

[T-Bob]

Unfortunately, we cannot ship to those outside of the US and Canada at this time.

 

my bro lives in Cali, I'm sure he'd send a batch across for a small fee...

['Dale]

What does the power to max unit go for?

 

Anybody here use the ibike newton? Opinions?

 

11-12 K for P2Max, the last time I heard

[RexFuzzle]

Haven't read the whole thread, but if it hasn't been said:

There will always be a difference between your crank reading and hub reading, if there isn't there is a problem or the errors have cancelled each other out. A drive train with chain is only at max 98% or so efficient, so the hub should read slightly less power unless it is taking the inefficiency into account (I doubt it). This efficiency changes depending on the gear you are in etc.

In theory there will also be a couple of small losses from reality to the crank version as there are bearings etc involved, but these are negligible, provided you BB is running smooth. Taking this further, the most accurate would be something on your shoe, to try and avoid any mechanical linkages, failing this the pedal option.

There has also been some development in people making their own using a strain gauge of sorts. In theory this would be the cheapest and would be as simple as sticking something to your crank. Check it out:

http://keithhack.blogspot.ca/2013/01/v3power-meterthe-complete-how-to.html

[Bianchisti]

Anyone taking the plunge on the new Vector peddles? I like it but don't want to enter the market on it to early and be a guinea pig. With all the delays they've had I can't help but feel there was major issues with it (otherwise why hold it back and spend so much money on R&D?).

 

Not saying it's a bad product but there is bound to be the initial niggly little issues with it, Like any new cellphone these days they test it in the market. I did see someone riding with it last weekend though. Said is was his first weekend out with it and it seems very consistent. Gave him a 75-25 left to right power distribution but he did have a cross wind from the left. Garmin is also talking about peddle stroke analysis in future releases which will let you know where your power in the stroke is distributed. Ie.: 6-9 o'clock, 9-12 o'clock etc..... That will be useful.

[Bike Mob]

What does the power to max unit go for?

 

Anybody here use the ibike newton? Opinions?

 

Been trying to get some sort of communication from the P2Max agency for weeks trying to buy one, promised calls with no follow up... doesn't bode well, if I bought and had issues I'd be pretty stuffed right now.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Zilla

[V12man]

I now have 2 powertap wheels - added a MTB one to the collection recently - super happy with the local agents service.

 

Called them up yesterday to find out if they had the end caps to convert my 142x12 hub to 9mm QR (so I can experiment with it on my SS) - the answer - sure - come by later.... How much? xx bucks - See you later....

 

Mike popped them out a sealed packet and handed them to me - How much do I owe you - Nothing... Can't ask for a better agent than that - service with a smile.....

 

BIG up to the team at Bicyclepower trading - thanks chaps.

['Dale]

Anyone taking the plunge on the new Vector peddles? I like it but don't want to enter the market on it to early and be a guinea pig. With all the delays they've had I can't help but feel there was major issues with it (otherwise why hold it back and spend so much money on R&D?).

 

Not saying it's a bad product but there is bound to be the initial niggly little issues with it, Like any new cellphone these days they test it in the market. I did see someone riding with it last weekend though. Said is was his first weekend out with it and it seems very consistent. Gave him a 75-25 left to right power distribution but he did have a cross wind from the left. Garmin is also talking about peddle stroke analysis in future releases which will let you know where your power in the stroke is distributed. Ie.: 6-9 o'clock, 9-12 o'clock etc..... That will be useful.

 

Also watching.

Any reviews on 'rainmaker yet?

[Bianchisti]

First time I've seen this baby. $699. Regardless of how good it is, the crank and hub based systems are fast losing appeal due to lack of flexibility and installation complications. This baby and the peddle system just makes it so much easier.

 

http://www.stagescycling.com/stagespower

['Dale]

First time I've seen this baby. $699. Regardless of how good it is, the crank and hub based systems are fast losing appeal due to lack of flexibility and installation complications. This baby and the peddle system just makes it so much easier.

 

http://www.stagescycling.com/stagespower

 

I'm looking forward to running with power.

Told myself that I'll wait a while.

 

Another cool option.

[Bianchisti]

Also watching.

Any reviews on 'rainmaker yet?

 

Here you go! I haven't gotten through the entire review. very detailed as always.

 

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/09/garmin-vector-review.html

[MTB_Roadie]

Been trying to get some sort of communication from the P2Max agency for weeks trying to buy one, promised calls with no follow up... doesn't bode well, if I bought and had issues I'd be pretty stuffed right now.

 

That is very strange, I spoke to Andrew and never had a problem ordering mine. Paid the Thursday and collected it the Friday. Did you deal with him directly? I can PM you his mobile number.

 

I have not had any problems yet but he said I can contact him directly on his mobile if needed.

 

I am really enjoying my Power2Max unit, I paid R11k for mine if I remember correctly and it came with the Rotor 3D Crankset. Calibration was set so after I fitted the crank and linked the unit to my Garmin it worked 100%

Edited September 26, 2013 by MTB_Roadie

[V12man]

I'm looking forward to running with power.

Told myself that I'll wait a while.

 

Another cool option.

 

Don't wait - best information on what is really happening during a ride, and it has certainly changed my training to be more effective.

[Bianchisti]

First time I've seen this baby. $699. Regardless of how good it is, the crank and hub based systems are fast losing appeal due to lack of flexibility and installation complications. This baby and the peddle system just makes it so much easier.

 

http://www.stagescyc...com/stagespower

 

More on the Stages PM... There is a comparison on the Vector review above which includes the Vector, Powertap, Quarq and Stages!

 

".....In summary, at present I don’t feel that the Stages Power unit will work for me as my primary power meter. The variations in data from workout to workout, and the variations within a workout make it difficult to analyze and come to meaningful conclusions on power-focused workouts. I do however feel that with more work on the software side, they may be able to stabilize some of the power outputs and ultimately simply have a known offset (due to left-leg power). However, there are still significant unanswered questions around how stable ones power balance is from left to right on both an individual basis, as well as throughout varying conditions over the course of training or racing.

 

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/01/stages-power-meter-in-depth-review.html

[V12man]

I personally am not too concerned about the left right balance unless you had a known issue with it - given that I have several mates using Quark power meters that show L/R balance, and a couple of name brand coaches as mates whose clients also have L/R capable meters, and the worst difference I have seen is just under 2% over the course of a couple of hour long rides.

 

I think the choice of power meter to use is more based upon how/where you train, and what bikes you use for training - so in my particular case (which if probably more complex than most) I train using 5 different bikes - 2 road (1 permanently on the trainer) and 3 MTB's - 2 are SS bikes and one is geared - this is also made more complex by the fact that one of the SS bikes (my lunchtime bike) is a 26" with caliper brakes, and the 2 29ers have different axels - one 142/12 and the other QR.

 

So clearly - swapping on a daily basis a single power meter is going to be a mission - made worse if it is crank/spider based, and the solution I have landed up with is 2 separate Powertap devices - one for road (and swapping it between trainer bike and road going bike takes about 2 min, and one for MTB - and swapping this between the 2 bikes takes a bit more work - swapping out endcaps on the wheel and removing cluster/cog - but this only takes about 5-6 min to do, and lately I have been doing it once a week or so - depending on the mood....

 

Of course - I still have to find a solution for the lunchtime bike.... but I think I can live without one on that for the moment.

 

If I only used a road bike for training/racing, including on the trainer, then I would probably have chosen a crank based meter, so swapping between racing and training wheels is easiest.

 

If I only used a single MTB for training and racing - then I would probably have chosen the stages one - for 2 reasons - 1 - it is the lightest of them all, and 2 - would enable easy swaps between wheels.

 

So - pretty much a complex decision to define which one is the best for buying... Initially I never thought I would want power measures on my mtb - but have changed my mind - all I will say is this - comparing trainer based sessions to outdoor sessions is next best thing to impossible... there is SO much more variability riding outdoors.....

 

If I had to choose one power meter only, then the most valuable place to have it is on the trainer - the only place IMHO you can have workout repeatability, and a level of safety while doing short hard intervals - watching a power meter every 15 sec on the road is NOT a good idea.. even at 5am in suburbia....

[typhoon]

Thanks to everyone contributing in this thread, very interesting!

 

Seen on Twitter yesterday and today:

 

Bruce Diesel ‏@brucediesel 23h

Testing time

 

Bruce Diesel ‏@brucediesel 2h

PM test: 1h19 ride segment: powertap: AP=227w NP=246w, quarq: AP=228w NP=244w, vector: AP=229w NP=247w

 

 

Bruce Diesel ‏@brucediesel 2h

Graphical comparison - Powertap vs. Quarq vs. Vector