The problem is NOT cyclist

[Capricorn]

why are u quoting the obvious headshot? an object of a mass exceeding a ton carries a deadly force. Soft objects such as peds and cyclists without air bags, crumple zones and seatbelts don't stand a chance. You needed a stat to understand that, or are you trying to imply something?

 

But the stat just re-emphasise the need for cyclists to stick to cycle lanes where available.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Capricorn

[Capricorn]

Niner: just so that you know, despite my hard argument against your approach, I do understand where you coming from, and in some perverse way, admire your tenacity in trying to garner support for your approach.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Capricorn

[stratus5]

Although we use the road, we are often closer to a pedestrian in speed and sometimes the safest way across a road is to be more pedestrain like. In this mode we often break road rules, but its certainly safer and again I stress if you do not INCOVENIENCE the motorist, they dont give a damn.

 

But ride two abreast and hold up the traffic!!! That is considered acceptable though and I would guess thats its 99% of the issue between cars and motorists. The only time cyclists piss me off is when they are taking up a lane in such a manner that I have to slow down to their speeds.

[Niner]

Although we use the road, we are often closer to a pedestrian in speed and sometimes the safest way across a road is to be more pedestrain like. In this mode we often break road rules, but its certainly safer and again I stress if you do not INCOVENIENCE the motorist, they dont give a damn.

 

But ride two abreast and hold up the traffic!!! That is considered acceptable though and I would guess thats its 99% of the issue between cars and motorists. The only time cyclists piss me off is when they are taking up a lane in such a manner that I have to slow down to their speeds.

 

That is a very valid point...DON'T slow motorist down. Weather that is like you said at a stop street or Traffic light or riding abreast.

[DJR]

It will NEVER change as long as PEOPLE in this country do not respect each other or the laws.

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Start by changing yourself first! Become courteous, obey the rules, before you know it someone else will start to do it too, and then a few more, and before you know it a huge change is taking place. South Africans are bloody good at changing - and we can do it on the road also!

[Niner]

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Start by changing yourself first! Become courteous, obey the rules, before you know it someone else will start to do it too, and then a few more, and before you know it a huge change is taking place. South Africans are bloody good at changing - and we can do it on the road also!

 

Hmm, I have tried to be part of the solution and I see no improvement...before I started cycling.....I am not saying that I have joined the other side, I am saying we are loosing.....it is getting worse out there on a daily basis.

[covie]

http://www.bicycling.co.za/articles/cycling-safety-tips-for-south-africa

[Headshot]

why are u quoting the obvious headshot? an object of a mass exceeding a ton carries a deadly force. Soft objects such as peds and cyclists without air bags, crumple zones and seatbelts don't stand a chance. You needed a stat to understand that, or are you trying to imply something?

 

But the stat just re-emphasise the need for cyclists to stick to cycle lanes where available.

 

Huh? And you call Niner beligerent?

 

'My flow's more important than a stupid robot" etc.Hell, many times i wished i didnt have to stop cos well, i'm just njoying the riding so much. But there's more to just my own needs when out on public roads. Whether niner, or any other red robot hero acknowledges it or not, every single cyclist out on a public road, has some power over the safety of other road users. While i dont always like the rules of the road, I accept they are there as a common basis for public safety"

 

I at any rate ,am not talking about "flow" and the "attitude" that goes with road riding - I am talking about simple safety and the inherent danger cyclists face that motorists don't. Add the average motorists attitude and you have a very dangerous situation for a cyclists. I am certainly not advocating a wholseale disregard for road rules though, and although you think I am stating the obvious, what is not so obvious and what you seem to miss is that the danger cyclists face on roads dominated by heavy motorised vehicles isn't properly recognised or dealt with on most roads or in the rules of the road themselves

 

I didnt know the stats before 20 mins ago and frankly they are shocking.

 

Most cyclists deaths seem to be related to drunken drivers and simple reckless or negligence on the part of the motorist. I doubt there is any significant correlation between cyclists breaking the road rules and their injury or death in accidents at the hands of a motorist. I also doubt that fewer cyclsists will die or be injured at the hands of motorists because we all stop at red lights all the time. I also doubt that motorsits will drive better around cyclsists if we all do that - it might remove some of the aggro from the situation, but cyclists will continue to get mowed down by motorised vehicles and in my opinion a safety conscious cyslist should ride defensively to take him or herself out of a danger zone even if it means breaking a road rule to stay alive.

[(Deon)]

Although we use the road, we are often closer to a pedestrian in speed and sometimes the safest way across a road is to be more pedestrain like. In this mode we often break road rules, but its certainly safer and again I stress if you do not INCOVENIENCE the motorist, they dont give a damn.

 

But ride two abreast and hold up the traffic!!! That is considered acceptable though and I would guess thats its 99% of the issue between cars and motorists. The only time cyclists piss me off is when they are taking up a lane in such a manner that I have to slow down to their speeds.

 

Stratus, Headshot, see where this thread started. It was all about inconveniencing motorists as you will see in the OP, the word inconsiderate described the actions. This got the topic moving into the drivers' perception of cyclists and how their disregard for the motorists infuriates them.

 

In that thread it was actually agreed that you as a cyclist, must do what the situation requires, but above all else preserve life. Why there had to be a rehash of that thread, I don't know, but niner has taken a stand from the beginning that to change ones attitude towards motorists will not help win favour from drivers... That nothing can be done to improve the rider/driver relationship. I don't agree with this view, I think if you can convert just one driver, you have started winning.

 

I find this so interesting, women have been vying for equality for generations, but only when they started working together and after a few became examples of achievement, then it inspired more to join... It took years but look at them now, and back then they were fighting the most stubborn of all lifeforms..

Edited February 10, 2012 by Pain or Shine

[Niner]

Stratus, Headshot, see where this thread started. It was all about inconveniencing motorists as you will see in the OP, the word inconsiderate described the actions. This got the topic moving into the drivers' perception of cyclists and how their disregard for the motorists infuriates them.

 

In that thread it was actually agreed that you as a cyclist, must do what the situation requires, but above all else preserve life. Why there had to be a rehash of that thread, I don't know, but niner has taken a stand from the beginning that to change ones attitude towards motorists will not help win favour from drivers... That nothing can be done to improve the rider/driver relationship. I don't agree with this view, I think if you can convert just one driver, you have started winning.

 

I find this so interesting, women have been vying for equality for generations, but only when they started working together and after a few became examples of achievement, then it inspired more to join... It took years but look at them now, and back then they were fighting the most stubborn of all lifeforms..

 

Good luck trying to change the view or Taxis that they should adhere to road rules........honestly....Good luck

[Lucky Luke.]

This from a 1st world country where social niceties and the law are a highly regarded:

 

Over 3600 Cyclists were either killed or seriously injured on the streets of the 32 London boroughs in the nine years between 2000 and 2008. This map shows the location and some details of each accident.

 

http://citybeast.com/londoncyclists.html

 

See all those markers? The area shown when the page loads is about the size of cape town city centre.

 

3600 in 9 years. That's more than one per day.

 

I can guarantee there are no Club 100's or Cyclelabs in central London riding around 3 abreast. And yet people have been dying en masse.

[covie]

This from a 1st world country where social niceties and the law are a highly regarded:

 

 

 

http://citybeast.com...oncyclists.html

 

See all those markers? The area shown when the page loads is about the size of cape town city centre.

 

3600 in 9 years. That's more than one per day.

 

I can guarantee there are no Club 100's or Cyclelabs in central London riding around 3 abreast. And yet people have been dying en masse.

 

you do realize that there are more poeple in London that in CPT Durban, JHB, "and whats the capitol of the vrystaat again combined.

 

You also have to take into account the % of people on cycles there compared to SA. If you do those figures youd basically come to a conclusion that for every 30 cyclists that die in SA, 1 would die in the UK. So the numbers look staggering if you put it like that but in reality its a minimal amount of accidents % wise.

[Lucky Luke.]

you do realize that there are more poeple in London that in CPT Durban, JHB, "and whats the capitol of the vrystaat again combined.

 

You also have to take into account the % of people on cycles there compared to SA. If you do those figures youd basically come to a conclusion that for every 30 cyclists that die in SA, 1 would die in the UK. So the numbers look staggering if you put it like that but in reality its a minimal amount of accidents % wise.

 

I dunno mate, all I can tell you is in my 8 years there I ended up on the deck many times and sometimes I was not able to ride away from the scene.

 

Since living here for the past 7 years I've only had one accident where a car forced me off the road and I actually came off.

The rest have been in races where I've fallen on top of people lying down in front of me.

 

London is interesting in that it is changing and for the better. It is top-down change brought about by congestion charging, better cycling infrastructure, bike parks, bike subsidies, all motivated by people like Ken Livingstone and that Boris geezer - both mayors and both cyclists.

 

Lets all hope Helen has a good Argust then.