Black vs Silver spokes

[Johan Bornman]

Something else to also consider about wheel imbalance is the effect it has on tyres. On cars and motorbikes, one can surmise an imbalanced wheel by examining the tyres and finding flat spots. There is no evidence that a bicycle wheel has ever developed such a tyre problem because of imbalanced wheels.

[lowracer]

this won't add anything to the debate' date=' and i'm not going to be nasty to anyone, but the wrencher at my lbs once laced a set of wheels by using black spokes for the drive spokes and silver for the rest. looked really odd[/quote']

 

Was this a case of "undynamic imbalance" .......mmmmmmmm!!!!!!!?????

 

because of the speed difference between black and silver spokes, it turned left really easy, and more difficult to the right

 

would be perfect on a track bike going anti clockwise

 

(which way do they go btw?)

 

a bit more on-topic. I never had the need to balance wheels yet, and i once kept my lowracer going over 80 km/h for over 10 minutes on the m19 from pinetown into durban. I have to add that the front wheel is a 20 inch with hub brake.

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

CarbonBoy' date=' I did a Google on Bicycle wheel balancing and found nothing which overtly supports your experience - that balancing a bicycle wheel the way you describe has a profound impact. Here is the best info that I have found. I haven't been able to digest it all yet - work time. If I'm not mistaken Jobst Brandt is a world leading expert on bicycle wheels. Or at least he makes his money from it. If there were significant benefits associated with bicycle wheel balancing then I guess that he would be at the forefront of perfecting the "art".

http://yarchive.net/bike/wheel_balancing.html


[/quote'] Jobst Brandt has written a book dedicated to the bicycle wheel, titled, The Bicycle Wheel. I am the local reseller of this book but I use it mainly as the text book for my wheelbuilding courses. There is nothing in there about wheel balancing. I communicate with Jobst quite often, when I run out of stock or want him to include new stuff in new editions (which he always pooh-poohs).  He's a very interesting guy. Every year, for the last 28 years, he tours the Alps during summer. He has the most amazing photo collection which is hosted for him on the Palo Alto Cycles website. Have a look at it when you have some time. Many of my students think I wrote the book - Jobst Brandt - Johan Bornman (confusing isn't it...ha ha), but I wish.

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

this won't add anything to the debate' date=' and i'm not going to be nasty to anyone, but the wrencher at my lbs once laced a set of wheels by using black spokes for the drive spokes and silver for the rest. looked really odd[/quote']

 

My mountain bike has 8 silver spokes in the back wheel and the rest are all black. Last year I destroyed the 8 outward-bound spokes behind the cluster when I bumped the jockey on a rock, it retaliated by allowing the chain to jump into the spokes just as I applied power. That shaves the spokes and they break very, very quickly thereafter. I wasn't going to buy a box of expensive black spokes just for that and fixed it with what I had in stock. It was quite a sad day, since it broke a perfect 9-year record of unbroken spokes on that wheel.  My bike is 10 this year. Party invitations to follow.

 

Johan Bornman2008-01-10 04:37:22

[lowracer]

coming back to the silver/black spokes

 

hopw do they get the spokes silver. is it polished stainless, or chromed?

 

Some chroming processes weaken the underlying material because the electroplating can cause hydrogen embrittlement.  I also once wanted to get something chromed, and the company said that it need to be specially prepared/polished. wont this also remove extra material?

 

How do they make the spokes black, through powdercoating? or how do they get the stuff to stick?

 

[NotSoBigBen]

Originally posted by velo

According to Easton:

Q. What's the difference between black spokes and silver spokes.
A. Nothing, except for color. Black spokes are made by applying a black oxide coating (not anodizing) to the spoke. It's a topical coating for cosmetic purpose only, and does nothing for the function or strength of the spoke.

QED (or something like that?)

[bob_the_builder]

 

QED (or something like that?)

 

Q.E.D. is an abbreviation of the Latin phrase "quod erat demonstrandum" (literally, "which was to be demonstrated"). The phrase is written in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument, to signify that the last statement deduced was the one to be demonstrated, so the proof is complete.

 

[bob_the_builder]

Currently, it has become so symbolic of irrefutable logic that "Q.E.D."

is occasionally used in non-mathematical contexts as well to intensify

assertions; in this context it has little connection with rigorous

deduction, however, and is more tongue-in-cheek.

[NotSoBigBen]

Must be 'philosophical argument' then I guess  and definitely 'tongue-in-cheek'

Thanks Bob for clearing that up .....anyways besides all the directions this post took (no I wasn't too concerned with my wheels state of 'wobble') I am happy that black is as strong as silver or red or yellow or whatever 1 spoke some okes throw in to confuse us!

[SwissVan]

Currently' date=' it has become so symbolic of irrefutable logic that "Q.E.D." is occasionally used in non-mathematical contexts as well to intensify assertions; in this context it has little connection with rigorous deduction, however, and is more tongue-in-cheek. [/quote']

 

Hell and here I was told by one of my math teachers that QED meant..

 

"Quite Easily Done"

 

Which resulted in me often recording this after each mathematical problem or Science problem I solved - no wonder I nearly plugged both subjects at school....

 

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

QED (or something like that?)

Q.E.D. is an abbreviation of the Latin phrase "quod erat demonstrandum" (literally' date=' "which was to be demonstrated"). The phrase is written in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument, to signify that the last statement deduced was the one to be demonstrated, so the proof is complete.
[/quote']

 

That's what I like about intelligent discussion. You always learn something. Thanks Bob. Now watch me "Q.E.D." my arguments here.....

[Johan Bornman]

coming back to the silver/black spokes

 

hopw do they get the spokes silver. is it polished stainless' date=' or chromed?

 

Some chroming processes weaken the underlying material because the electroplating can cause hydrogen embrittlement.  I also once wanted to get something chromed, and the company said that it need to be specially prepared/polished. wont this also remove extra material?

 

How do they make the spokes black, through powdercoating? or how do they get the stuff to stick?

 

[/quote']

I've seen different finishes on black spokes.

 

I've seen what is definitely a coating, like paint, of sorts. This peels off like normal paint. Then I've seen what I can only describe as gun blueing, a dark blue colour like that on a rifle's barrel - a carbon tetrachloride treatment if I remember correctly. Then I've seen a dark brown type finish that's equally thin and impregnated into the spoke as is the gun-blue finish.

 

As for the silver ones, they're simply naked stainless steel. On dikwiel bikes and cheap stuff at Hyperama you'll still find spokes that are galvanised - horrible spokes. In the old days some fancy spokes were still chromed. This was used as peacock feathers by 6-day racers in velodromes. Under bright spotlights chrome spokes look much faster than stainless spokes and track racers in Europe used to fancy them. It is a little bit like the Open Corsa bakkies of today, those with shiny wheels are much faster....or have a higher noise-to-speed ration in anyway.

 

 

Johan Bornman2008-01-10 04:53:08

[lowracer]

Originally posted by velo

According to Easton:

Q. What's the difference between black spokes and silver spokes.
A. Nothing' date=' except for color. Black spokes are made by applying a black oxide coating (not anodizing) to the spoke. It's a topical coating for cosmetic purpose only, and does nothing for the function or strength of the spoke.

QED (or something like that?)[/quote']

 

ok, how do you apply an oxide coating to a spoke? do you mix it with paint/varnish and bake it

 

or do you mix it with powdercoat  and bake it?

 

[Canaris]

My steel spokes have a nice brown tinge called rust

[lowracer]

oh, I see JB allready replied while I was phrasing my question

[Thug]

 

 

 

Hell and here I was told by one of my math teachers that QED meant..

 

"Quite Easily Done"

 

Which resulted in me often recording this after each mathematical problem or Science problem I solved - no wonder I nearly plugged both subjects at school....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Thug2008-01-10 05:46:40