Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

[kandui]

Agree with Iron on this one. Lance got all the glory standing on the podium and then raked in the endorsement $ after that. So let them come and take his trophy cabinet away. With all the cash he made, he'll fill the gap with an expensive sculpture of piece of furniture. Where's the punishment in telling a guy now that he never won 7 Tour titles? Scratch his name off the trophy, what does that achieve? We all saw him win on TV and he was idolised for it.

You want to punish the guy! Make him as poor as he would have been had he never won any of the titles they want to strip him of now. That will hurt more than taking a trophy away.

[pista]

 

 

They should just legalize doping. If an athlete wants to risk it then so be it. Use the TDF and such events for the entertainment value that it produces. The racing will be exciting whether they dope or not.

+1

[philip.maree]

This is known as being presumptuous

I know! It's sad though but this is how sceptical the sport of cycling has become.

[philip.maree]

@Goya, I believe you have been labelled as stupid.

 

 

 

I like what you are saying here.

 

I was pondering on this earlier on in the week.

My first thought, the "told you so's" will all be having a heyday sitting on their moral high horse as if they brought L.A. down single handedly.

 

I am looking at the situation as such.

 

Who are the real winners here.

Usada ?

The told you so.'s ?

The sport ?

 

The only real winner to my eyes is Jan (love that dude)

 

USADA have not "won" ,arbitration might have resulted in a win.

 

But the funniest and most ironic thing to me is how old Lance becomes the one and only target to the haters now.

 

Basso also doped to the eyeballs is a tour winner now.

Contador doped to the eyeballs is such a big darling on his heroic return.

David Millar, when will his fans push for him to be knighted ?

Vino, doped to the eyeballs ,Olympic Champs retires on a high (I love him tough)

Merckx, the greatest legend or is that doper of all time.

 

So as much as I would love to sit on a moral high Durban July horse, I am no better.

 

I will finish off by saying this.

Regardless off all the accusations and whatever else Armstrong might be guilty of, it was still a phenomenal feat to be riding 7 tours as well as he did without crashing out of the tour or being too ill to get back on the bike the next day, or even worse, a saddle sore

 

The biggest loser here is the sport of cycling.

Well said!

[flymango]

 

The biggest loser here is the sport of cycling.

 

Couldn't agree more - love him or hate him, what he achieved was phenomenal. I'd love to see him compete at the 10th anniversary of the Epic next year. After all, as a country, we're (officially) renowned for forgiving (but not forgetting) our past.

[kandui]

+1

+1 Look at Flo Jo. She set a world record they won't beat for a long time. But, she died young and we can pretty much work out why.

[Wyatt Earp]

Couldn't agree more - love him or hate him, what he achieved was phenomenal. I'd love to see him compete at the 10th anniversary of the Epic next year. After all, as a country, we're (officially) renowned for forgiving (but not forgetting) our past.

 

And I can assure you that his biggest haters will be there to catch a glimpse of him.

I was a fan a good few years back, I am over it now.

 

Many others I can admire right now.

['Dale]

For cycling to move on to greater and improved heights, this piece of 'unfinished business is necessary.

 

Although the headlines still irritates me as I prefer good news about the sport.

Edited August 24, 2012 by ' Dale

[canfan]

Whats sad for me is that i no longer get excited when a riders / team wins . i kind of wait for the bad news in a few years/weeks and this is sadley the truth about the sport at the moment .

I agree 100%. I look at someone like Froome and love what he has brought to cycling the past year, but you have to wonder where has his dominance in the mountain stages come from all of a sudden. Can't help but wonder, is he really that good or does he have a really good chemist.

[Wyatt Earp]

I know! It's sad though but this is how sceptical the sport of cycling has become.

 

I have to admit though, one can't help but wondering whats going on.

As Iron said , you sort of wait for the bad news.

[philip.maree]

I reckon Jens Voigt must have the best chemist.

 

What he is doing currently is just mind boggling.

 

Just love that dude!

[Iron]

As I said I hate dopers ! All of them !

 

1. you make it legal

 

or

 

2. a rider must get life bans and repay all winnings

 

In my simple mind this will sort this out .

 

Riders don't have big enough consequences for their actions so no need for them to not do it .

[Wyatt Earp]

I agree 100%. I look at someone like Froome and love what he has brought to cycling the past year, but you have to wonder where has his dominance in the mountain stages come from all of a sudden. Can't help but wonder, is he really that good or does he have a really good chemist.

 

I will defend Froome tooth and nail, he trains harder than anyone you can think of right now.

[liebenw]

Someone made this comment.

 

If we reach back into the history of cycling to strip titles from the admitted or not quite clean dopers of the sport, we are going to discover empty podiums. Gone will be Anquetil, Merckyx, Indurain, Delgado, Moser, Fignon, Thevenet, Riis, Zabel, Basso, Marteens, Bataglilin, Zootemelk, Coppi, any German cyclist, many Spaniards most of the Italians. The list is in the hundreds. Most of these guys admitted their doping within the eight year statute of limitations so forget that out. The French remain humiliated that their system has not generated a champion since 1986 and that winner is a known question because he reneged on a deal with Greg Lemond. The grand Tours beg for doping. The demands are beyond expression. The pain and suffering is intense on a minor climb, forget the grand climbs of the Tour. Perhaps this is one way Greg LeMond gets the recognition he truly deserves in the sport of kings – the rest of the heroes are simply gone, ghosts in the hall of fame.

Cyclists do not start out as dopers. The juice finds us in our darkest hours. Hours like a too young 17 year old trying to finish a 171 mile stage in a pro-am tour, you have to make the time limit or you are out. Dope finds us in disputes with sponsors over a racing schedule that makes no sense to an athlete. It finds us when we cannot just hang on or hang in but when we have nothing in the tank and we have to drive tempo for our leader at the front of the peleton. It finds us simply because unlike many other professional team sports there are no substitutions. Over 21-days in the Tour it is unacceptable to have an off day or a day off. And then when the Tour is over, the nightly criterium schedule ramps up.

This pursuit of Lance is a joke. It relies on the subtleties of the definition of modern doping - abnormal levels of x relative to y. X is okay below threshold z and only if q is not present at all. Simple things were completely ignored like the presences of plastic residue from transfusion bags – too easy. WADA has the legacy of Dick Pound to live down and the USADA has more than its share of problems like medical exemptions granted with nary a question. We were all asthmatics; the medical evidence was irrefutable as all of us had trouble breathing under sustained exertion. USADA tell the truth – How many exemptions for Clenbuterol did you grant for world class athletes? Hundreds? Thousands? Or you do not have records or the dog ate them on the way to school?

The real tragedy of doping was in the late '80's and early 90's when 25 or so young riders died in their sleep of apparent heart failure. Hearts gave out when EPO boosted blood took on the consistency of toothpaste could not deliver oxygen to the body while the heart was at rest. It was an era of a silent killer creeping through young pros. Everyone stood by knowing but not really knowing as only a refined lawyer preparing for a deposition understands. Riders were waking themselves at night to exercise and get their heart rates up in fear they would otherwise die in their sleep and that fear was justified. USADA and WADA were silent because going along was easier than doing their job.

The current action by USADA and WADA is all theater to continue and perhaps perversely atone for the fight they ignored. It reminds me of the accounting firms that missed Worldcom, Enron and the Banking crisis of 2008. The regulator’s of this world care more about their position in the economic food chain than doing their job. They play go along get along until the price of go along gets in the way of maintaining their position in the economic food chain.

I sense cycling is improving. The indicators are simple. Average speeds are no longer increasing; team tempo riding has diminished in both duration and intensity. The days of eight drones at the front of the peleton boiling off one hundred or more other athletes while protecting their leader appear on the wane. Only the organizers fail to get it. They keep creating ever more brutal and diabolical stages (Tour of Italy 2012).

I care for the future of the sport, not the past. The regulators knew what was happening and took the easy view at the time– he passed the test. Conveniently reacquired virtue does not create an excuse to destroy those that worked within the system WADA mis-managed in the past. They were happy with the standard then, they need to live with it now. WADA could have helped Pantani and so many, many others, but instead they played along because they perceived getting along was more important than looking out for the athlete.

I love the sport, nothing is more enjoyable than the relaxed hour or two deep in the peleton chatting it up at the beginning of a long stage, and nothing is more gratifying than any finish line intermediate, stage, mountain top or the Champs Elysee. I pray for the success of young Peter Stetina and Taylor Phinney and hope they are able to realize what their fathers could only dream. Lance did great things for this sport against insurmountable odds, let him go. Americans simply fail to understand how deeply affected the French are by the fact that their system has not produced a winner since 1986. USADA should be a pawn in the healing of their annual humiliation. French riders have never resisted doping in pursuit of a pure victory – just ask Anquetil, Virenque or Fignon. Let’s clear the path for a new generation and hold WADA and USADA accountable to that future and not the past that they both so clearly missed with eyes wide open.

This action and the recent DOJ action is so small and childish. It is time to balance the act. Keep an eye on the riders, but go after the sponsors for the insane schedules and go after the organizers for the sequential climbs and insane time trials.

 

Well I do not agree with letting him go. If he doped he must be exposed. remember other riders have had to take the fall without being found guilty. Was Jan Ulrich found guilty (bar the e-pill). He and Basso had to abondon the 2006 Tour because they may have beem involved. It has never been established as fact.

 

Sports fans need to know. He has done great things and coming back from cancer was admirable. But we must never let the emotion of what he has done for cancer victoms and the illness cloud the fact that he may have doped and thus is in fact a cheat.

[goya-goya]

@ tumbleweed HAHA...STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES...

 

I will make no comments about your comments... lets just wait for things to play out as they will..

 

Go Lance GO!! :clap:

[Tumbleweed]

Well I do not agree with letting him go. If he doped he must be exposed. remember other riders have had to take the fall without being found guilty. Was Jan Ulrich found guilty (bar the e-pill). He and Basso had to abondon the 2006 Tour because they may have beem involved. It has never been established as fact.

 

Sports fans need to know. He has done great things and coming back from cancer was admirable. But we must never let the emotion of what he has done for cancer victoms and the illness cloud the fact that he may have doped and thus is in fact a cheat.

 

Quite right.

 

And, while one component of this case is about suspicious blood values, there is much, much more to it. It's like the Festina affair, but on a much larger scale.