Introducing PowerCal a new kind of Power Meter

[dracs]

dracs, never had any HR spikes. I get the odd power spike, but it seems that is par for the course for any power meter. But it does make for depressing graphs, if it caters for a 3000w shooter somewhere in the ride and the rest of the line is piddling down theeeere under.

Ja - haven't played around with Golden Cheetah yet but I think I saw some functionality that lets you remove spikes presumably for this reason... Re the HR issue - I haven't had this again in subsequent rides. May be a combo of the conditions on the day and the strap may have been a little loose.

 

Need to do some analysis of my rides now and see if I can learn anything... - just haven't got there yet

[NotSoBigBen]

I see an update is available for Golden Cheetah

 

http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net/?p=629

[dracs]

I see an update is available for Golden Cheetah

 

http://goldencheetah...surf.net/?p=629

Am I just being slowed up or do you need to start from scratch with the new instllation? Doesn't seem to upgrade but rather adds a second program so you need to re-do settings, re-import data etc?

 

Quick question to the CycleOps guys (or anyone else who knows), is the Powercal waterpoof? It doesn't look particularly so and I was planning to use in the 70.3. Will it be OK...?

[NotSoBigBen]

Were you running V3? I just did an upgrade ......

[BicyclePower]

Am I just being slowed up or do you need to start from scratch with the new instllation? Doesn't seem to upgrade but rather adds a second program so you need to re-do settings, re-import data etc?

 

Quick question to the CycleOps guys (or anyone else who knows), is the Powercal waterpoof? It doesn't look particularly so and I was planning to use in the 70.3. Will it be OK...?

 

nope the CycleOps PowerCal is not to be used in multi sport disciplines like swimming.

[dracs]

nope the CycleOps PowerCal is not to be used in multi sport disciplines like swimming.

pity...

Were you running V3? I just did an upgrade ......

only v2.1...

[Minion]

DC Rainmaker has done a comprehensive review:

http://www.dcrainmak... (DC Rainmaker)

 

A summary of pros and cons:

Pros:

 

- Cheap, really cheap

- A gateway drug to full blown power meters

- Compatible with any ANT+ power meter device, easily integrates with existing devices

- Includes ANT+ heart rate strap functionality as well (you can use that part standalone for a run, which I do all the time).

- Can be calibrated, if you want to venture down that path

 

Cons:

 

- Shorter duration accuracy is rough

- Longer duration accuracy depends on many variables

- Pace fluctuates quite a bit

- May not be as accurate for everyone, highly individualized

- Calibration procedure requires repeated testing, may not improve accuracy

Edited November 30, 2012 by Minion

[covie]

This is super news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.What do you all think

 

I think its bull if you know how your heart works then it has nothing to do with power. Just go read joe friel's heart rate training bible, Your heart is unique individual and works differently every day. And depending on a million of factors like illness, fatigue, food, etc the rates changes, I am no doctor but from the bit i know and have read Im damn sure theres no way to get an acurate power reading from your heartrate. Other factors are the delay in HRM's as they dont poll often enough, the time it takes for your heart rate to get up to tempo after prolonged excessive length the curve goes down. Which means your heart rate starts dipping even though maintaining the same speeds/effort.

 

And the only reason you have power meters is because they are more accurate than heart rate monitors for training. Even if the formula comes close its still not acurate and wont help you in the slightest besides having "interesting" data. Sort of like the way strava works out your "power" output based on heart rate.

Edited November 30, 2012 by covie

[Minion]

I think its bull if you know how your heart works then it has nothing to do with power. Just go read joe friel's heart rate training bible, Your heart is unique individual and works differently every day. And depending on a million of factors like illness, fatigue, food, etc the rates changes, I am no doctor but from the bit i know and have read Im damn sure theres no way to get an acurate power reading from your heartrate. Other factors are the delay in HRM's as they dont poll often enough, the time it takes for your heart rate to get up to tempo after prolonged excessive length the curve goes down. Which means your heart rate starts dipping even though maintaining the same speeds/effort.

 

And the only reason you have power meters is because they are more accurate than heart rate monitors for training. Even if the formula comes close its still not acurate and wont help you in the slightest besides having "interesting" data. Sort of like the way strava works out your "power" output based on heart rate.

And yet the reviews (i.e actual data) out there indicate that it gives better data than heart rate alone and much better data than an online estimator like Strava. It doesn't give the same accuracy as a true direct force PM (nor does it claim to), but then it doesn't cost R9000+ either.

 

It's a reasonable compromise between cost and accuracy. I am seriously considering one as a load (i.e. TSS) estimator for MTBing, rather than shelling out R12,000 for another direct force PM.

[dracs]

And yet the reviews (i.e actual data) out there indicate that it gives better data than heart rate alone and much better data than an online estimator like Strava. It doesn't give the same accuracy as a true direct force PM (nor does it claim to), but then it doesn't cost R9000+ either.

 

It's a reasonable compromise between cost and accuracy. I am seriously considering one as a load (i.e. TSS) estimator for MTBing, rather than shelling out R12,000 for another direct force PM.

exactly. I don't know the voodoo it uses but it works

I think its bull if you know how your heart works then it has nothing to do with power. Just go read joe friel's heart rate training bible, Your heart is unique individual and works differently every day. And depending on a million of factors like illness, fatigue, food, etc the rates changes, I am no doctor but from the bit i know and have read Im damn sure theres no way to get an acurate power reading from your heartrate. Other factors are the delay in HRM's as they dont poll often enough, the time it takes for your heart rate to get up to tempo after prolonged excessive length the curve goes down. Which means your heart rate starts dipping even though maintaining the same speeds/effort.

 

And the only reason you have power meters is because they are more accurate than heart rate monitors for training. Even if the formula comes close its still not acurate and wont help you in the slightest besides having "interesting" data. Sort of like the way strava works out your "power" output based on heart rate.

it doesn't use heart rate but heart rate variability. Just anectdotally when riding with the thing if I freewheel after a really hard effort with my hear rate still at say 160, or freewheel after low effort with heart rate at say 120, the bloody think registeres 0 or close to zero watts....

 

Intuitively I agree it should not work - but it does to (to a certain level of accuracy anyway)

Edited November 30, 2012 by dracs

[covie]

exactly. I don't know the voodoo it uses but it works

it doesn't use heart rate but heart rate variability. Just anectdotally when riding with the thing if I freewheel after a really hard effort with my hear rate still at say 160, or freewheel after low effort with heart rate at say 120, the bloody think registeres 0 or close to zero watts....

 

Intuitively I agree it should not work - but it does to (to a certain level of accuracy anyway)

 

Go read a couple of books on power training, what makes power effective is its extreme accuracy and the fact that you can change your training thanks to the accurate data given by a power meter. Hence why i said this would give you "interesting data" but as far as a proper training mechanism its not on par.

 

I would'nt mind semi acurate data for interest sake but i would prefer acurate data for training.

[dracs]

 

Go read a couple of books on power training, what makes power effective is its extreme accuracy and the fact that you can change your training thanks to the accurate data given by a power meter. Hence why i said this would give you "interesting data" but as far as a proper training mechanism its not on par.

 

I would'nt mind semi acurate data for interest sake but i would prefer acurate data for training.

sure it comes back to cost / benefit I suppose. Probably if you have used proper power data this won't cut it, but for a newbie like me its interesting

[SeaBee]

Agreed, plus it gives you input into more tools (play-thingies! ) from which at least you now get some form of TS values, etc. Even if just for guidance, I find it handy.

 

I do get the odd weird spike, but I think you even get that on full-blown PT's. And as dracs mentioned, I've also seen high HR values correctly yielding lower power values, orat low HR values it shows high power values long before HR pops up. More than "just interesting" to me.

 

No, I haven't yet tried it for full-blown power-based intervals, etc. Give me a break, I've hardly touched the roadbike! But may very well see what gives in those terms during Dec.

[FrancoisO]

(play-thingies! ), think it would still be more accurate for calculating TSS, than guessing from your heart rate.

[Jeepdude]

So all you hubbers who bought the PowerCal, how is it working for you?

i was so excited tostart using it... and have been very succesfully and pretty close to other powermeters.... then i hit a snagg. i have started using blood pressure meds , went through quite a few variants in a very short time... the longest of which i was on a beta blocker , which effectively made the Powercal useless as a PM , the beta blocker keeps your heart rate low... so i was doing 4 hour rides at 120-130 avg bpm heart rate , lucky i am off those now but it was pretty frustrating

[Blackadder]

Jeepdude - how did the beta blocker impact your power output readings on Powercal? Assuming your heart rate is 25 odd bpm lower than normal, was the power output consistently lower than your output before you took the betablocker? Or did it fluctuate wildly, which would indeed render the Powercal useless.

 

I ask as I am in the same boat.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Blackadder