Indurain says he still believes Armstrong is innocent

[HappyMartin]

The most tested athlete story is another untruth propagated by the Armstrong publicity machine and is dealt with by USADA. Turns out he was not even the most tested Armstrong as there is another female athlete with the same name that was tested more frequently. USADA found proof of less than half the number of tests that Armstrong claims he participated in.

[jcza]

The most tested athlete story is another untruth propagated by the Armstrong publicity machine and is dealt with by USADA. Turns out he was not even the most tested Armstrong as there is another female athlete with the same name that was tested more frequently. USADA found proof of less than half the number of tests that Armstrong claims he participated in.

 

Agreed - thats why I said "possibly one of the most tested". It was nowhere near 500 as claimed by Armstrong. I think the exact number is less than half that.

[covie]

I'm with Indurain on this one...

 

Me too, "theres no way to detect a rider injecting his own blood" bullsh@!T, its called plasticines it doesnt degrade, and is prevelant in any transfusion, so if he did it would be in his blood thats been kept for who knows how many years.

 

Guilty or not, without a postive test of the thousands of samples they have, it still remains a witchunt, if the UCI and the FBI couldnt make a case based on "evidence" the very same evidence the USADA has the case is still not proven. Only diff is USADA is judge jury and execusioner and they dont need evidence in the legal sense of the word to ban someone.

[eddy]

 

I stand to be corrected, it seems these 26 witness accounts are all individual accounts with no incident been witnessed by more than 1 witness at any given time.

 

Happy to correct you.

 

The individual affidavids often corroborate one another, as does physical evidence (money trails etc.) and the reasoned response deals explicitly with each piece of evidence depended on.

 

Section IV deals with "DISCUSSION OF THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING USADA’S CHARGES on pgs 13 to 139";

 

Section V, deals with "SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT CORROBORATES LANCE ARMSTRONG’S DOPING VIOLATIONS";

 

And in an addendum they deal individually with "ADDITIONAL INFORMATION RELEVANT TO THE CREDIBILITY OF USADA’S FACT WITNESSES".

 

It is what it said on the box "a reasoned decision" and deals with all of the aspects debated here in a way that even the UCI, Oakley, Nike etc. could not but accept.

 

 

As a lawyer, you will find it revealing and is worth a read, because all the facts are there.

 

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

Edited October 24, 2012 by eddy

[williamric]

Me too, "theres no way to detect a rider injecting his own blood" bullsh@!T, its called plasticines it doesnt degrade, and is prevelant in any transfusion, so if he did it would be in his blood thats been kept for who knows how many years.

 

Guilty or not, without a postive test of the thousands of samples they have, it still remains a witchunt, if the UCI and the FBI couldnt make a case based on "evidence" the very same evidence the USADA has the case is still not proven. Only diff is USADA is judge jury and execusioner and they dont need evidence in the legal sense of the word to ban someone.

 

Yeah and have they re-tested his blood and released the results?

 

Again the misinformation is staggering, has anyone on this site actually read the USADA report? He only had like 200 tests not "thousands". The UCI was never part of the FBI case, and the FBI case was dropped for uncited reasons. If you read my previous posts you will see that the federal case was vastly different to the USADA case.

[covie]

Yeah and have they re-tested his blood and released the results?

 

Again the misinformation is staggering, has anyone on this site actually read the USADA report? He only had like 200 tests not "thousands". The UCI was never part of the FBI case, and the FBI case was dropped for uncited reasons. If you read my previous posts you will see that the federal case was vastly different to the USADA case.

 

Yes they did and thats what makes his doping charges so staggering sure if you knew how the countermeasures for doping 10 years ago worked you might be able to beat the system, How ever testing methodologies and equipment improved substantially and there was no way for them to know how to cheat the system today. Hence what makes this so intrueging, they have all the samples all the latest tech, and still they can't find fault with his blood.

[jcza]

Yes they did and thats what makes his doping charges so staggering sure if you knew how the countermeasures for doping 10 years ago worked you might be able to beat the system, How ever testing methodologies and equipment improved substantially and there was no way for them to know how to cheat the system today. Hence what makes this so intrueging, they have all the samples all the latest tech, and still they can't find fault with his blood.

 

Not correct - retested and proved conclusively that he was EPO positive after day 1 of 1999 Tour.

[williamric]

Yes they did and thats what makes his doping charges so staggering sure if you knew how the countermeasures for doping 10 years ago worked you might be able to beat the system, How ever testing methodologies and equipment improved substantially and there was no way for them to know how to cheat the system today. Hence what makes this so intrueging, they have all the samples all the latest tech, and still they can't find fault with his blood.

 

Great, so please cite any scientific report where it states that Lance Armstrong's blood from 1999-2005 tests has been retested and found to be clear?

 

This is going to be interesting...

[eddy]

Hence what makes this so intrueging, they have all the samples all the latest tech, and still they can't find fault with his blood.

 

I need to go and find it, but IIRC his blood samples have been retained by the UCI who have refused to hand them over for re-testing.

 

With the line Pat McQ took on Monday implying none of this happened on his watch, I suspect he may remain reluctant for the time being .

[jcza]

Watch this when you have time - http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

[covie]

Not correct - retested and proved conclusively that he was EPO positive after day 1 of 1999 Tour.

 

Yes and if you remember correctly that cortizoid was found in his saddle sore cream and he was aquitted.

 

Heres just one link of his latest retests

http://road.cc/content/news/65453-usada-retest-lance-armstrong-blood-samples-proves-positive-says-french-tv-show

 

Where they make mention that they now have evidence of him being guilty of doping but in the report there was no evidence of postive blood/urine, and conviction was based on testimony,

 

Also the FBI retested the samples just use google it is your friend

[williamric]

Yes and if you remember correctly that cortizoid was found in his saddle sore cream and he was aquitted.

 

Heres just one link of his latest retests

http://road.cc/conte...-french-tv-show

 

Where they make mention that they now have evidence of him being guilty of doping but in the report there was no evidence of postive blood/urine, and conviction was based on testimony,

 

Also the FBI retested the samples just use google it is your friend

 

ummm... the attached says that his re-tested samples were positive, not clear? And it doesn't cite any other re-tests its just speculation.

 

Please provide a report on the FBI re test samples?

[covie]

I agree whole heartedly with this author, and to the nay sayers i couldnt give a shait about lance armstrong or road cycling, but right is right and due process is due process regardless of the sport.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/lance-armstrong-vs-usada-what-are-we-to-believe/2012/08/24/62940afa-ee0a-11e1-afd6-f55f84bc0c41_story.html

[Tumbleweed]

The most tested athlete story is another untruth propagated by the Armstrong publicity machine and is dealt with by USADA. Turns out he was not even the most tested Armstrong as there is another female athlete with the same name that was tested more frequently. USADA found proof of less than half the number of tests that Armstrong claims he participated in.

 

She shares a name with Lance's ex too.

[williamric]

I agree whole heartedly with this author, and to the nay sayers i couldnt give a shait about lance armstrong or road cycling, but right is right and due process is due process regardless of the sport.

 

http://www.washingto...0c41_story.html

 

I'm still waiting for evidence of the re tests that were clear. You claim they exist, please substantiate your claim or retract it?

[SwissVan]

Logic says.... if there were any positive re-tests of B samples or any other samples then the USADA would have them listed in their report on page one in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS

 

So i haven't seen anything like that in the report, can someone tell me which pages in the USADA report I should be looking at to see these?