Tubular or clincher for long distance triathlons

[shawnvan]

Hi guys

 

Just wondering - for those of you with tubbie wheels, how do you prevent punctures ruining a long distance race? Would hate to train for months for a 70.3 or IM and have the race end because of punctures...

 

Do you carry a spare tubbie tire with you?

 

Do you try use tire goo in tubbies (heard you can try, but it doesn't really work due to the high pressure)?

 

Thoughts?

[Swim.Bike.Run]

My personal opinion, go with clinchers - a breeze to fix, should you puncture.

And the performance gains for us mortals are negligible, except if you are going for a sub 9 IM!

[Dinamic]

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Edited December 4, 2012 by Dinamic

[Tiny K]

I know of a couple that do Ironman and they use clinchers on their Willier Tristena's with Cosmic Carbone wheels.

[Dinamic]

Seems to be a bit of a myth that due to being difficult to change a puncture on a tubbie will see the end of your race, wrong. If your tubbies are pre stretched they are easy to get on. You don't have to glue them which means they are not too difficult too get off. No risk of snake bite punctures, and all the being it's of riding tubbies. If you are prepared to practice a little bit you can ( and I have) changed a tubby faster than someone changing a clincher.

 

Having said all this the advancement in clinchers has closed the gap but being old school and a Luddite I still would go and recommend tubbies

[Dinamic]

Sorry was doing this on phone double entered

[Let's Ride]

If they are not glued on, how do you make sure the tubbies don't fall off?

[davem]

Tubbies have a weight advantage which is largely irrelevant on IMSA course.

 

Rolling resistance on modern wheels is almost indistinguishable between tubbies and clinchers from what I have read.

 

Clincher is a lower risk for changing a tyre although a well trained person can do a tubbie (almost) as quick,

 

Tubbies are expensive.

 

I have done all my racing on clinchers with Gatorskins. Have come to realise that Gatorskins are not bulletproof.

 

Have ridden with Slime in the above setup for a year and now realise that Slime is what saves the day. Punctures solve themselves. At most I have had to stop for less than 30 secs and bomb the tyre hard again after it has sealed. Slime only adds 60g per wheel which is negligible and adds to rotation mass which is actually beneficial on an IMSA style course. (Small penalty in fast accelleration scenarios).

 

Now switching to Conti 4000S as the rolling resistance saving is claimed to be massive (with Slime of course).

[NotSoBigBen]

Back in my ironman days (yes I know it was many years ago and we still had downtube shifters ...) guys used to carry 'pre glued' tubbies ...... In the days of Ben Jansen van Vurren, Rockley Montgomery et sal ....

[Dinamic]

If they are not glued on, how do you make sure the tubbies don't fall off?

.

 

Double sided tubbie tape ( pre stuck on to the tube) along with the high pressure of the tubbie is more than adequate to hold the tyre onto the rim.

 

In some cases I know triathletes who have simply removed the old tubbie and put the replacement straight on without even using the tape just relying on residual stickness on the rim from the old tubbie and pressure.

 

Would I suggest this for a highly technical course with high speed twisting desents eg, France no, but on that course you might be better of a light weight climbing wheel.

[Dinamic]

Tubbies have a weight advantage which is largely irrelevant on IMSA course.

 

Rolling resistance on modern wheels is almost indistinguishable between tubbies and clinchers from what I have read.

 

Clincher is a lower risk for changing a tyre although a well trained person can do a tubbie (almost) as quick,

 

Tubbies are expensive.

 

I have done all my racing on clinchers with Gatorskins. Have come to realise that Gatorskins are not bulletproof.

 

Have ridden with Slime in the above setup for a year and now realise that Slime is what saves the day. Punctures solve themselves. At most I have had to stop for less than 30 secs and bomb the tyre hard again after it has sealed. Slime only adds 60g per wheel which is negligible and adds to rotation mass which is actually beneficial on an IMSA style course. (Small penalty in fast accelleration scenarios).

 

Now switching to Conti 4000S as the rolling resistance saving is claimed to be massive (with Slime of course).

In the main I don't disagree with most of what you have said.

 

In my first post I point out that modern clinchers have closed the gap in terms of rolling resistance.

 

It does help to practice with tubbies but equally I have seen people take in excess of 10 min in changing a clincher.

 

I pay around R450 for a tubbie ( corsa evo ) if you compare that with the cost of conti's and tubes I don't think there would be that much in it.

 

At the end of the day a person should ride what they are confident riding, be that tubbies, clinchers, whatever. But I do feel that tubbies here in SA get a bit of a bad rep based on misconception.

[Jakkals.]

Tubbies, and to change is definitely quicker than that of clincher.

gatorskin tubbies cuts, rips through, still no flat.

[Johan Bornman]

There is no room for tubbies in contemporary cycling, no matter what the discipline.

 

Tubulars were borne out of necessity - technology for clinchers weren't available 100 years ago and the tubular was designed. Today's users base their decision entirely on myth, lore, sentiment and nostalgia. Clinchers are cheaper, easier to maintain and match tubulars on all the important factors including puncture resistance, pressure and rolling resistance.

 

Althoug a tubby can sustain higher pressures, the rule of diminishing returns kicks in at about 6 bar. Thereafter tubbies and clinchers have equal rolling resistance. The only condition under which a tubbie has lower rolling resistance is when it is glued with shellac (hard glue) not today's contact glues. Contact glues cause hysteris between the tyre and rim that robs power (adds resistance). I don't know of anyone who even knows what shellac is, nevermind use the stuff.

 

Tubbies supposedly have higher resistance to pressure punctures. Well, at today's pressures you have to hit a clincher extremely hard to snakebite. Most tubbies at the high-end are carbon and those rims cannot sustain a snake-bite type impact in anyway. The tubby may survive, but the rim not.

 

Tubbies that are not glued on properly, are a risk and are outright dangerous. They can bunch up under braking (they even bunch up under hard braking in alpine conditions due to the glue melting.

 

Someone mentioned a R450-00 tubbie. That is almost certainly an inferior product compared to a R450-00 clincher. It costs a lot to manufacture a good tubbie. Lots of manual work involved.

 

That said, not all clinchers are the same. Gatorskins and their ilk are sluggish tyres designed for robust riding in adverse conditions. The're not the best in terms of rolling resistance, no matter what the brochure says.

 

The optimal tyre in terms of performance, cost, convenience and safety on a long competitive ride would be a lightweight clincher with a 120TPI carcass and silica (as opposed to carbon) rubber.

[bradwentzel]

What about a tubbie disk versus a clincher one?

[sluiper]

That said, not all clinchers are the same. Gatorskins and their ilk are sluggish tyres designed for robust riding in adverse conditions. The're not the best in terms of rolling resistance, no matter what the brochure says.

 

I agree with most of what you said re tubbies, but feel I have to say something for Gatorskins.

 

They are sluggish tyres, but I'll take the 2 minute penalty over a 6 hour ride any day if it means I don't have to fix 1 puncture. I've experienced both sides of the coin, i.e. racing tyres with low rolling resistance and getting a puncture vs. Gatorskins and no punctures, and my preference is for the Gatorskins.

[Jakkals.]

I agree with most of what you said re tubbies, but feel I have to say something for Gatorskins.

 

They are sluggish tyres, but I'll take the 2 minute penalty over a 6 hour ride any day if it means I don't have to fix 1 puncture. I've experienced both sides of the coin, i.e. racing tyres with low rolling resistance and getting a puncture vs. Gatorskins and no punctures, and my preference is for the Gatorskins.

 

nothing better to train on than gatorskins, man even they are pricey nowadays.