gogo@ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Following this thread with interest. In a similar situation, just a few steps behind, for now! And I'm a bit out of my depth here and not sure about the 'professional' advice i've had so far, so could those who know tell me what you think here... Couple of months ago a spoke went on my rear wheel, drive side. Road bike, Alex rims, alu nipples. Broke off clean at the nipple. Which is where I understand most flexing happens?? The wheel pulled out of true so much that it would not turn, even with the canti brakes released from the rim. Took wheel to bike shop, having looked over rest of wheel myself without seeing anything obvious, other than that it felt like spoke tension around the wheel was not even. Mechanic replaced broken spoke and told me rest looked good to go. Doesn't sound like it from what Johan says... what should I be looking out for? A new wheel?? I've just spent my limited cash on a new set of MTB wheels so was happy to go with mechanic's opinion. Problem is, I don't think he has a whole lot of experience here. The rim is good, the hub is good. Would it be worth buying spokes and brass nipples myself and getting a rebuild, or just buy a new set of wheels?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Mo Posted December 9, 2012 Share Get JB to rebuild them for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted December 9, 2012 Share Wow Johan, awesome explanations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted December 10, 2012 Share Following this thread with interest. In a similar situation, just a few steps behind, for now! And I'm a bit out of my depth here and not sure about the 'professional' advice i've had so far, so could those who know tell me what you think here...Couple of months ago a spoke went on my rear wheel, drive side. Road bike, Alex rims, alu nipples. Broke off clean at the nipple. Which is where I understand most flexing happens?? The wheel pulled out of true so much that it would not turn, even with the canti brakes released from the rim. Took wheel to bike shop, having looked over rest of wheel myself without seeing anything obvious, other than that it felt like spoke tension around the wheel was not even. Mechanic replaced broken spoke and told me rest looked good to go. Doesn't sound like it from what Johan says... what should I be looking out for? A new wheel?? I've just spent my limited cash on a new set of MTB wheels so was happy to go with mechanic's opinion. Problem is, I don't think he has a whole lot of experience here. The rim is good, the hub is good. Would it be worth buying spokes and brass nipples myself and getting a rebuild, or just buy a new set of wheels?? You contradict yourself a bit but I'm sure it is accidental. I'll assume it is the nipple that broke, not the spoke. Aluminiun nipples break routinely. They split off at the dead due to cyclical stresses which they can't handle. This problem and their affinity to corrosion make them stupid components. Brass nipples on the other hand have an infinite fatigue life, don't corrode and make life much easier. However, the weight-weenies think otherwise. Brass nipples weigh a frew grams more but in my opinion a reliable wheel is worth two birds in the bush.*  If your spokes are stable and don't break, have someone replace all your alu nipples with brass. You may however have to replace the spokes too, since alu nipples frequently freeze onto the spoke and then it has to be cut off.  In this photo I've placed two broken nipple heads. Next to it is an aluminium nipple cut length-wise, showing the corrosion that makes them freeze onto the spoke and prevent turning. The next nipple, the silver one is a standard nipple and the last one is interesting. This is an aluminium nipple without the head-sever problem (albeit still with corrosion issues). This nipple has an extension above the head that allows the spoke to go through and past the stressed area, giving it internal support. The problem with nipple is that it is patented by American Classic and not licensed to anyone. It also requires a 3mm longer spoke (thus cannot be retrofitted to existing spokes) and of course, it still corrodes like hell.  * Or whatever the relevant addage is. Edited December 10, 2012 by Johan Bornman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaLoCo Posted December 10, 2012 Share My MTB was breaking spokes standing in the morning sun, about 3 cm from the nipple (not even riding it). Dude at LBS said the black spokes are more prone to snapping. (he was replacing a spoke every two or three days) He rebuilt the wheels and replaced all the spokes and I have not snapped a spoke yet. Get your wheels rebuilt, and if they are cheap wheels then get newer better wheels as a rebuild is not a cheap option. I was lucky, it cost me R 600 for both wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted December 10, 2012 Share Johan, apart from the weight advantage, any other reason for using double butted spokes? Double butted spokes have a slender centre section which flexes more than the two thicker ends. This means that all the cyclical flexing happens in the smooth, slender centre section and not at the two ends, which are the weakest point on the spoke due to the elbow and threads. DR ◣◢ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted December 10, 2012 Share My MTB was breaking spokes standing in the morning sun, about 3 cm from the nipple (not even riding it). Dude at LBS said the black spokes are more prone to snapping. (he was replacing a spoke every two or three days) He rebuilt the wheels and replaced all the spokes and I have not snapped a spoke yet. Get your wheels rebuilt, and if they are cheap wheels then get newer better wheels as a rebuild is not a cheap option. I was lucky, it cost me R 600 for both wheels. Black spokes are jsut as durable as their equivalent silver ones. In your case, their time was their time. Black or silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaLoCo Posted December 10, 2012 Share Black spokes are jsut as durable as their equivalent silver ones. In your case, their time was their time. Black or silver.Bike was 3 months old from new....so, no old timer spokes I might concede bad tensioning, but the wheels were true  Was busy polishing one of the guitars I built whilst the sun was rising over the sea. Heard the ping as the spoke snapped. I knew it was that because I had moved the bike out of my way a hour earlier and it was fine. I trust Josh at my LBS, he has reliably gotten most of the local participants through the Trans Baviaans for a few years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capcha Posted December 10, 2012 Share Think we need to change thread name to Breaking Spokes...Ask Guru JB . Buying a set of Deep Sections on Friday. Anything I should be Looking out for that I should know about before buying JB as far as duribility and name brand on these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogo@ Posted December 10, 2012 Share DaLoCo, Johan, thank you both.I'm pretty sure the spoke broke, not the nipple. Looked at it thoroughly and it seems the spoke sheered off where it screws into the nipple, but then this is a first for me so I may have been wrong, although the mechanic thought similarly.Must say, I'm tempted to have a go at rebuilding the wheel myself (don't laugh, one has to start somewhere). It's a cheap rim so...Also, on reflection, the spoke tension around the wheel was not even, so this may have had a lot to do with it. Not knowing how to check these little things and then the consequences they may have is why I want to fiddle and learn myself.Might be better to use the money for a rebuild on one of Johan's courses instead! DaLoCo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted December 10, 2012 Share Bike was 3 months old from new....so, no old timer spokes I might concede bad tensioning, but the wheels were true  Was busy polishing one of the guitars I built whilst the sun was rising over the sea. Heard the ping as the spoke snapped. I knew it was that because I had moved the bike out of my way a hour earlier and it was fine. I trust Josh at my LBS, he has reliably gotten most of the local participants through the Trans Baviaans for a few years now. You're not reading what I've said in this thread. Age has NOTHING to do with it. Young or old, spokes that have not been stress-relieved will break. Tension is a small, secondary issue. The sun is also not to blame. As a spoke heats up, it elongates and relieves tension, not increase it. It's time was its time. Sun or moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaLoCo Posted December 10, 2012 Share Doing Johan's course will teach you not only how to rebuild wheels, but also the cause and effect of certain actions during the build. This will help you prevent issues up ahead. And you have a cheap rimes to practice on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted December 10, 2012 Share DaLoCo, Johan, thank you both.I'm pretty sure the spoke broke, not the nipple. Looked at it thoroughly and it seems the spoke sheered off where it screws into the nipple, but then this is a first for me so I may have been wrong, although the mechanic thought similarly.Must say, I'm tempted to have a go at rebuilding the wheel myself (don't laugh, one has to start somewhere). It's a cheap rim so...Also, on reflection, the spoke tension around the wheel was not even, so this may have had a lot to do with it. Not knowing how to check these little things and then the consequences they may have is why I want to fiddle and learn myself.Might be better to use the money for a rebuild on one of Johan's courses instead! No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogo@ Posted December 10, 2012 Share OK!!I get it from your reply to DaLoCo, I think!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogo@ Posted December 10, 2012 Share ... also the cause and effect of certain actions during the build...Clearly I know something, that I know nothing, about how wheels work!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIRT EATER KZN Posted December 10, 2012 Share i noticed that if you only have one layer of tubless tape the pressure forces the sealant through the tape and then what i can only guess is amonia (from smell) eats the aluminium nipples which then go now i put double tape and replaced all my nipples same time should be good for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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