Fake Pina's on Gumtree

[MTB_Roadie]

Brand slut, unbranded whore, same difference actually. Both are fanboys.

 

Trying to sell something as authentic when it is not, is the domain of the con artist. This thread started as a warning to avoid being conned and morphed into some sort of justification fo buying Chinese lookalikes.

 

 

i guess what i'm getting at is: besides of waffling over all the theoreticals, wish someone would be able to pinpoint exactly how the carbon blanks represents a complete and utter misfire when compared to the branded originals. Sectional views, strength tests, stiffness measurements.. would be mighty interesting.

 

but coming back to the OPs motivation for starting this thread, that poser on gumtree is a devious scumbag. Using without permission, the trading name of someone else's company for profit is just plain theft/fraud/doucheness of note.

 

Exactly, just wanted to warn everyone

[ThaStig]

i guess what i'm getting at is: besides of waffling over all the theoreticals, wish someone would be able to pinpoint exactly how the carbon blanks represents a complete and utter misfire when compared to the branded originals. Sectional views, strength tests, stiffness measurements.. would be mighty interesting.

 

but coming back to the OPs motivation for starting this thread, that poser on gumtree is a devious scumbag. Using without permission, the trading name of someone else's company for profit is just plain theft/fraud/doucheness of note.

I hope a Nigerian "entrepreneur" just happens to "acquire" his name and id number, and starts using his name for "profit" ; then we'll see who complains.

Edited December 28, 2012 by ThaStig

[Octavian]

 

I hope a Nigerian "entrepreneur" just happens to "acquire" his name and id number, and starts using his name for "profit" ; then we'll see who complains.

 

Now that is funny...

[Wayne Potgieter]

Ride metal bikes!

 

Nuff said.

[Kanga]

From by broader view( limited bike experience )

Firstly the Chinese market is huge you can get the best manufacturing possible ( just think Foxconn) and some rather crappy and it generally os what the market requires.

 

That being said big brand performance equipment manufacturers generally make " massive margins" when you compare unit cost vs sales price, but it doesnt stop there

 

Technology and design costs, in time, mock ups , prototypes, redesign, proper testing, decent qc systems etc.

The cost of trademarks patents etc.

Then I assume they would sponsor users ( in the case of bikes pro sportsman) in part marketing in part testing feedback, and in part to start designing the next best thing.

Then marketing to help sell the volumes required to cover the by now mounting cost.

Then back up. This cost more than you would think.

Then all this starts filtering down to the lower level units so that chubby cyclists like me get more for my R 15k entry level bikes

It also forces competitors to find an enduring competitive advantage to be able to compete meaning more tech filtering down.

 

So whether it is the exact same thing as the original that is just not branded or a knockoff is not the point.

By buying the manufacturers technology you disintermediate this chain by taking out crucial elements interrupting the cycle and probably adding cost of the manufacturer trying to protect his IP which he will have to recover

 

Same thing as buying fake Levis, pirating music and movies.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Kanga

[CAAD4]

Lol, bunch of hipocrates, most things come out of china. 80 percent of you guys buy fake dvd's , download mp3's and movies,etc. All fake if you want to use the term, what about the poor artists. original price is 80k + which is rediculous by any standard. maybe 5% of the guys on this hub can afford to buy the real deal as they put it.

 

Pointless debating the subject. I have bought italian suits in Woodstock and they where contracted to make for italian company, doesnt make it a fake, just an overrun. The same suit costed R5000 in waterfront and R600 at the factory, LOL......

 

Where was thaf?

[HeyYou]

Once bought an Omega Seamaster in China for $10. Leaks in the shower,though it says WATER PROOF to 1000 metres. Looks really good though and it's what I expected for $10, so I'm not complaining.

[Iwan Kemp]

From by broader view( limited bike experience )

Firstly the Chinese market is huge you can get the best manufacturing possible...

Well said. So yes, profit per unit is much higher than the chinese knock-off, but whether we like it or not that money pays for quite a lot. None of us would be having this debate if Pinarello didn't have the brand value it has today. And that comes from sponsoring riders, teams, events and lots and lots of advertising. For someone else to just jump on that bandwagon is plain criminal.

 

May I also add that the statement that "all bikes coming from the East go through the same test and QC" couldn't be farther from the truth. Not even close. And unfortunately the ones not tested is ALWAYS blank, unbranded frames. Not saying 100% of blank, unbranded frames go untested, but 100% of untested frames are "blanks". Same with lots of wheels, handlebars and all the other goods being produced in the East and sold direct.

 

Then, it's also important to keep in mind that computer testing can only take you so far. Simulations and computer design have come a long way, but if even the biggest of the biggest companies who do A LOT of field testing get it wrong from time to time, imagine what the ratio is for the companies who don't.

 

All of this add up.

Edited December 29, 2012 by The Crow

[Azonic]

Well, the factory I source my frames from follow European Bicycle Testing Standards, EN 14766:2005 for Mountain Bicycles and EN 14781:2005 for Road Racing Bicycles.

 

I don't care what people say in terms of that some "big" brand tests their products better or whatever. The frames I source, at least, are tested more than good enough, and I deal with a relatively small company. And I wouldn't be surprised if Pinarello themselves follow the same testing methods.

 

EN 14766.PDF

[Iwan Kemp]

Well, the factory I source my frames from follow European Bicycle Testing Standards, EN 14766:2005 for Mountain Bicycles and EN 14781:2005 for Road Racing Bicycles.

 

I don't care what people say in terms of that some "big" brand tests their products better or whatever. The frames I source, at least, are tested more than good enough, and I deal with a relatively small company. And I wouldn't be surprised if Pinarello themselves follow the same testing methods.

 

EN 14766.PDF

There are some brilliantly good ones out there. No doubt about that.

[Azonic]

I haven't worked with this company before so I don't know their testing methods, but damn. This does look good. Yes, not a "real" Pina, but if a frame is a "real" Pina purely because it made a round-trip to Italy first where someone whiped it down with a bit of Mr. Min and slapped a sticker on it that's R40 000 more than what you can get this one for..... no comment. If this rode past you in the bunch, would you be able to tell the difference? I wouldn't be able to.

 

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/830/030/549/549030830_545.JPG

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/267/030/549/549030267_779.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/268/030/549/549030268_019.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/269/030/549/549030269_832.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/270/030/549/549030270_425.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/271/030/549/549030271_956.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/272/030/549/549030272_548.JPG

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/462/030/549/549030462_793.JPGhttp://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/464/030/549/549030464_262.JPG

 

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/922/056/541/541056922_155.jpg

[Iwan Kemp]

From mtbr.com

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/off-camber-off-topic/748076d1356534311-why-i-dont-buy-china-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356534310.172006.jpg

[Azonic]

From mtbr.com

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/off-camber-off-topic/748076d1356534311-why-i-dont-buy-china-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356534310.172006.jpg

 

Extremely sad and hectic. But that's the situation in China. Millions of people that are willing to do the same jobs, or any job that's available. And because there are so many available workers, the companies get away with paying them peanuts. If they complain, get another guy to fill the position. That's the evil side of capitalism I guess. But alas, the above letter very well could just as likely come out of the "real" Pinarello factory... The woman at the factory I buy from say they get something like 1% of the sale value as commission. So for my R4300 drame, she earned R43. Very sad, but that's a situation China worked themselves into throughout the years.

[Sharkie 2]

Who can you reprimand when you ride on this and it breaks at the head tube and you get badly hurt due to inferior carbon being used?

[Azonic]

Who can you reprimand when you ride on this and it breaks at the head tube and you get badly hurt due to inferior carbon being used?

 

Your over prices Pina is just as likely to break at the headtube. Who are you going to reprimand then? Sure, Pina will send you a new frame. Because you pretty much paid them for 10 frames, they can afford to send you another one. If my Chinese frame breaks I'll just order another one, and still have R30 000 in my pocket. Also, where do you get inferior carbon from? Last year all the top "read: Expensive" brands were using Toray T700 carbon, this year they are using T800, where China is still using T700. So what makes it inferior, because the frame is 50g heavier in size XL?

 

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/what-difference-between-t700-t800-t900-carbon-fiber-278020.html

[Kanga]

The fact of the matter is that these blanks and copies all have Pinarello IP in terms of design possi le manufacturing practise etc be they cheap knock offs or midnight specials in the same plant.

 

I.e you are buying STOLEN IP. You may as well buy a stolen bike or wait outside Meerendal and whip it of some blokes bike rack while he is having a glass of wine.

 

Whether they are the real deal or not in terms of quality or not you are buying it based on the fact that it is in fact a copy of a Pinarello, you wouldnt buy a copy of a cheap bike.