Tokai tree felling: Snake trails

[Flowta]

Sorry but this is a commercial logging project, their first priority is to complete the job by a certain date, if they can get it done sooner it will satisfy many more people. I am not going to make excuses for Cape Pine, their agreement was to assist by clearing, I can only assume there is a valid reason why the trees still lined the trails this weekend. I did notice one of their machines has not moved since Wednesday. Possible cause?

 

And what is wrong with my logic? Do you want a discount in relation to how many trails you can ride? Should the bank only charge you for the time you spend in your house?

 

Quite frankly I am amazed by how many people don't know that the pines were going to be cut. Do you know that this has been in debate for years? It was only a matter of time before this block was going and if the logging has messed up the trail, there should be no surprise either -It is logging.

 

If the sun is too hot, ride earlier or later. If you cannot ride the DH, please don't. There are other trails to ride and other destinations that offer temporary relief while the logging is in progress. Your understanding is actually needed right now. I could be wrong but to moan about the entry fee while the commercial logging carried out by a group totally separate from TMNP seems a bit short of the understanding that is needed.

 

Regarding Cobra and Rinkhals. The current state of the trail has given enough motivation for rebuilding them to a sustainable standard and provided enough cause to reroute the remaining pine lined trails that are being cleared now. There is no way the current trail design will withstand the full sun/rain without tree and pine needle cover. This discussion still has to be knocked around between TokaiMTB and TMNP but the feeling is, there is enough reason to realign. Remember, these talks actually requires the EMP to be completed, so the fact that we are discussing the changes now is a big, sensitive step!

 

The vision for Tokai is long-term, this means there will be planning and negotiating needed but above all, patience. The pieces are falling into place an no amount of haste will make them fall any faster. In this case, circumstance is our friend.

 

Yes, I know it is a logging area. That was never in doubt, neither the fact that it would be harvested.

 

But not enough warning was given, for one (I'm sure after all the work that has been put into those specific trails you can agree, yes I have been to a build day on those trails). Especially now as you say the current trail design cannot sustain the full sun/rain with the pines gone.

 

There is going to be MASSIVE erosion as soon as the first rains hit. far more than the impact that MTB has on the current trails..

 

Also there is not adequate signage stating that logging is happening. I don't know how many people I rode past yesterday muttering about the fact they had paid for entry only to find the place as it is.

 

As it is the price is 33% more than anywhere else. (Not an issue for me with activity card)

 

Personally I am fine on the Dh trails, etc. but these people are not.

 

Please tell me where in the Southern Suburbs there is a place like Tokai that can be ridden?

 

Also wrt to EMP, fynbos regrowth etc. Have you had a look at the lower arboretum? The area that was harvested of pines there is rapidly being overrun with Port Jackson and other aliens!!!

 

Is the same going to happen up the slopes too?

Edited January 14, 2013 by Flowta

[Flowta]

Yes, I know it is a logging area. That was never in doubt, neither the fact that it would be harvested.

 

But not enough warning was given, for one (I'm sure after all the work that has been put into those specific trails you can agree, yes I have been to a build day on those trails). Especially now as you say the current trail design cannot sustain the full sun/rain with the pines gone.

 

There is going to be MASSIVE erosion as soon as the first rains hit. far more than the impact that MTB has on the current trails..

 

Also there is not adequate signage stating that logging is happening. I don't know how many people I rode past yesterday muttering about the fact they had paid for entry only to find the place as it is.

 

As it is the price is 33% more than anywhere else. (Not an issue for me with activity card)

 

Personally I am fine on the Dh trails, etc. but these people are not.

 

Please tell me where in the Southern Suburbs there is a place like Tokai that can be ridden?

 

Also wrt to EMP, fynbos regrowth etc. Have you had a look at the lower arboretum? The area that was harvested of pines there is rapidly being overrun with Port Jackson and other aliens!!!

 

Is the same going to happen up the slopes too?

 

PoS, please don't take this as a personal attack on yourself.

 

Just putting thoughts of mine into words. I know you have been working really hard to get things done and deal with the process of givernment and parastatals (Trust me, I know things take time)

[(Deon)]

It's the hub, who takes stuff personally here?

 

Answers to your Q's below.

 

---

 

 

But not enough warning was given, for one (I'm sure after all the work that has been put into those specific trails you can agree, yes I have been to a build day on those trails). Especially now as you say the current trail design cannot sustain the full sun/rain with the pines gone.

 

- No warning was given, not to me but especially not even to TMNP. I was notified first thing the morning after they were informed. The MTB trails were a priority to TMNP and word was duly sent out to as many places where TokaiMTB 'socially' makes contact with the public. (Twitter is proving the best area.. Follow for updates @AMA_TokaiMTB.) There is very litle warning from the loggers, not only Cape Pine but also when it was MTO. There are several factors that influence their cutting schedule. From one conservation perspective, this block was stealing time from the proposed fynbos rehab where Pine is grown in a 100yr rotation allowing the natural stuff to grow. Fynbos seeds only stay dormant for 100yrs before rotting. This block is somewhere in 110yrs already.

 

- I know a lot of effort has been put into those trails, it really is sad to see it go but we all knew the pine was there on borrowed time. This is why the trail was built with soil and not reinforced with material bought, I was not going to capitalise on uncertainty.

 

There is going to be MASSIVE erosion as soon as the first rains hit. far more than the impact that MTB has on the current trails..

 

- The trail will be destroyed when they are done logging. This is the chance to rebuild to future needs. Speaking of which. Mayhem, can I use your GPS again this afternoon?

 

Also there is not adequate signage stating that logging is happening. I don't know how many people I rode past yesterday muttering about the fact they had paid for entry only to find the place as it is.

 

- Again, we cannot get the word out to everyone but there is a sign that notifies riders at the entry that logging is in progress and lists the trails affected. There was an article in the weekend paper on the logging too. It is not expected that everyone will be happy about the closures.. I mean, who would be?

 

As it is the price is 33% more than anywhere else. (Not an issue for me with activity card)

 

- The cost is inline with annual increases. Good karma awaits those who pay.. unbegrudged. That money btw is funding several other parks who get almost zero yearly traffic.. I am however discussing an added input fromTMNP to go to the trails, but 1st prize would be to support TMNP with as much money as the MTB community can generate and as result, watch how the activity climbs the ladder of annual contributions towards conservation. THIS IS NB BTW!

 

Personally I am fine on the Dh trails, etc. but these people are not.

 

- I will be adding temporary warning signs of the DH perils.

 

Please tell me where in the Southern Suburbs there is a place like Tokai that can be ridden?

 

- OK, you got me, I was meaning Jonkershoek.

 

Also wrt to EMP, fynbos regrowth etc. Have you had a look at the lower arboretum? The area that was harvested of pines there is rapidly being overrun with Port Jackson and other aliens!!!

 

Is the same going to happen up the slopes too?

 

- Yes, but there is a plan in place that deals with the alien growth. The usual MO is to let all the alien sprout and before reseeding, cut and poison. The block you refer to in the lower has only been pine cleared for a short time. It will look like the area that was burnt (to the left - mountain behind you) when they are done. The upper Tokai is in a serious way though! TMNP have made 2013 priority to deal with alien growth. Port Jackson, Wattle etc are simple in control, but the Blackwood has everyone scratching their heads. TokaiMTB and PPA will be getting together to "adopt a spot" for volunteer weed pull days. Again the term, "considerable contribution towards conservation" rings loud! Make it a mantra.. MTB needs the best publicity it can get.. perspectives are changing slowly but no resting on laurels!

Edited January 14, 2013 by Pain or Shine

[DJR]

 

.................................TokaiMTB and PPA will be getting together to "adopt a spot" for volunteer weed pull days. .................................

 

 

You, of course, know that I own a kid with a Bear Grills machete.............

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

You, of course, know that I own a kid with a Bear Grills machete.............

 

ROFL @ "I own a kid with a..."

 

Brilliant!

 

And I know your slave is just itching to swing that monster!

[(Deon)]

 

 

You, of course, know that I own a kid with a Bear Grills machete.............

 

 

...and it for that very reason why I think it is he who owns you...

[(Deon)]

 

 

ROFL @ "I own a kid with a..."

 

Brilliant!

 

And I know your slave is just itching to swing that monster!

 

Imagine what the trees in DJR's garden look like??!!

[Guest Omega Man]

.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Omega Man

[nishiki]

Wait. Let me get this straight.

 

1. We PAY to ride there.

2. Sanparks put precisely F0K0L into the trails

3. The trails are maintained by volunteers and private money.

4. The guys at the gate are paid by Trail & Tar to stop low lifes breaking into cars between 5 & 7.

 

 

AND NOW WE MUST BE THEIR GARDEN BOYS. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

 

Dude. Seriously.

As I always say: People will treat you how you let them treat you.

[Guest Omega Man]

.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Omega Man

[(Deon)]

I exit this debate, it will go nowhere except back to the beginning.

[Guest Omega Man]

.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Omega Man

[(Deon)]

Cheers.. It is a volunteer thing and if you look again, not even carefully, it is in caps, you will see I have pointed out it to be a TokaiMTB/PPA initiative. Reading glasses anyone?

Edited January 15, 2013 by Pain or Shine

[(Deon)]

I'd like to ask, is there anything wrong with talking? Does it have to be a full-blown rant when something is misunderstood?

 

Omega man, you know Parks make an annual contribution. The Trail and Tar contribution is exactly that, a contribution willingly offered by Noel.. gladly accepted by TMNP. We were all happy around the table, it is not what it appears in your post, that they HAD to do it or no-one else would.

 

It goes without saying that I appreciate the assistance you and all the volunteers have contributed towards making the place you ride better, but as we have discussed before, there are other people who enjoy other facets of being outdoors that does not involve heavy labour. For these people there will be a different form of contribution to making Tokai pristine. You don't have to feel that every volunteer call means you. It is volunteering, you choose if you want to or not. This is a practice that has been done in the TMNP for over 60 years by various individuals. The mountain bikers volunteer system is the baby amongst other organised groups.

 

Now here is why I say it is important.. these other groups that have spent the best part of their lives assisting parks without grudge, are highly respected and invaluable to TMNP's existence... their contribution in time adds up to millions. Would you not want to be seen in the same light? This is a project aimed at getting more people involved and making the place better. The practice of trucking in material from outside the TMNP borders is going to get some attention sooner or later, you can actually be thankful that someone is considering lessening the impact by arranging alien clearing days to minimise the effects of contaminating the soil any more than what it already is. LAst thing we need while the pines are dropping is for a conservationist to stop our source of reinforcing the trails because we cannot manage the contamination.

[Guest Omega Man]

I deleted my comments.

[Beattbox]

Imagine what the trees in DJR's garden look like??!!

 

Trees???