dracs Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 My 2c: I think everyone complaining about the substitution/refund policy has to remember that the Ironman guys are running a business, i.e. they're not doing this for charity. Completing and training for an Ironman is not a small undertaking and I think if their policy was not as strict, they'd be running their business at a loss. I realise that there are exceptional circumstances, but I'm guessing that in 95% of "exceptional circumstances", it's just someone who didn't put in the hours and wants his/her money back. Also, they've managed to build their brand up into an aspirational status symbol so they can pretty much charge whatever they want and set whatever refund policy they want. In this case, it's pretty obvious they can do whatever they want and still sell out the event. I think they're very upfront and honest about their refund policy. In my opinion, if you don't like it, you don't have to enter. I agree with your sentiment in general - but I do think that if you are genuinely injured or sick and produce a medical certificate accordingly, the refund should be full (less costs) - or be valid for the following year's event. Aside from basic fairness, this could help to discourage guys from competing who should not be for health reasons (lets not forget about the 2 guys who died in EL earlier this year at least one of whom had flu and was on antibiotics in the weeks leading up to the 70.3)...
Garfield2010 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Posted October 23, 2013 from their websiteUntil 6 December 2013 – 50% refund on entry feeFrom 7 December 2013 – 7 February 2014 – 25% refund on entry fee8 February 2014 and after – 0% refund on entry feeI agree with Sluiper - I think many people just cop out. That's a bit steep considering that they will replace the guys pulling out with new R4,300 entries (or even more due to late entries) from new guys. Sure I get the R400 admin fee and all that but not why they need to keep the other R3,500 if the athlete is replaced...... Yes Sluiper they can do what they want as there are no substitute events and we do not have a choice. I have said before we need another full distance event in RSA. Its almost like DSTV. Very expensive but what choice do we have... Anyways I guess I will just have to hope I do not get injured.
JGR Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 That's a bit steep considering that they will replace the guys pulling out with new R4,300 entries (or even more due to late entries) from new guys. Sure I get the R400 admin fee and all that but not why they need to keep the other R3,500 if the athlete is replaced...... Yes Sluiper they can do what they want as there are no substitute events and we do not have a choice. I have said before we need another full distance event in RSA. Its almost like DSTV. Very expensive but what choice do we have... Anyways I guess I will just have to hope I do not get injured.How they make money shouldnt be a consideration for the subs/refunds. We have a similar thing at work - we will credit the client on a sliding scale 75% month 1, 40% month two and 15% month 3. Its a common business practise Last year I ended up losing more money changing my flight - If I cancelled I would have lost R3k and to move it to another date cost R1800. Im from EL so I just used it to go visit my mom on her birthday later in the year. There are a lot of companies that give no refund at all and IM have changed the sub policy as well to use the entry for another race (full or 70.3 in that same season) What are they supposed to do - charge the waiting list guys less? But like you say - there are few/no alternatives so what can we do
Garfield2010 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Posted October 23, 2013 Sorry for the double post but on this point just an idea... Why not bring in a policy as follows:- If you get hurt or injured or cannot take part in IMSA you can get a full refund before 1 March if you get an able replacement to take your place. This guy will need to pay the full entry amount + an additional R500 admin fee. Once he has registered and the money have been transferred, you will receive your refund. Obviously only refunding a guy 25% and getting a full new entry in any case is more income rewarding is it not? And if I get injured after 8 Feb then there is no use in telling the organisers that I am injured as there is nothing for me to gain (only for them) But rules are rules so I am just glad I got an entry for now.
JGR Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 Sorry for the double post but on this point just an idea... Why not bring in a policy as follows:- If you get hurt or injured or cannot take part in IMSA you can get a full refund before 1 March if you get an able replacement to take your place. This guy will need to pay the full entry amount + an additional R500 admin fee. Once he has registered and the money have been transferred, you will receive your refund. Obviously only refunding a guy 25% and getting a full new entry in any case is more income rewarding is it not? And if I get injured after 8 Feb then there is no use in telling the organisers that I am injured as there is nothing for me to gain (only for them)That wold be nice but the reality is they need to consider an option that covers more than just the honest guy that gets injured and protects themselves from a mass of people pulling out a few weeks before. I stand corrrected but you could then transfer the entry to another race. The best would be if you could just sell your entry to someone else. The problem with this is you will always get some ass trying to profit on his origional entry. Anyways best solution is to train hard and stay healthy
Shebeen Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 KOOL AID, I tell you all! Wonder how many of the people caught up in the hype won't be on the startline due to various circumstances. Their 'refund'/waiting list policy is a good way to ramp up profits (it's rather unethical).
JGR Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 KOOL AID, I tell you all! Wonder how many of the people caught up in the hype won't be on the startline due to various circumstances. Their 'refund'/waiting list policy is a good way to ramp up profits (it's rather unethical).Very few - the non starter rate is about 5% Waiting list just gives people an opportunity to enter and wait in a fair manner for tickets to become available. Very few companies give refunds for buyers remorse
dracs Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 KOOL AID, I tell you all! Wonder how many of the people caught up in the hype won't be on the startline due to various circumstances. Their 'refund'/waiting list policy is a good way to ramp up profits (it's rather unethical). Tell you what - get in a room of ironman competitors and you can breath the koolaid. Energetic, positive, motivated, resiliant, successful people. I said to a friend at last year's 70.3 race briefing this would be a great pool of people to recruit from.
sluiper Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 Tell you what - get in a room of ironman competitors and you can breath the koolaid. Energetic, positive, motivated, resiliant, successful people. I said to a friend at last year's 70.3 race briefing this would be a great pool of people to recruit from. Ha, was talking to a friend over lunch about Ironman and I mentioned that anyone motivated enough and willing to work hard enough would definitely be able to finish an Ironman. He said, "Yes, but that's the difference: you have to work hard and be motivated. There aren't a lot of people like that."
Shebeen Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 I love this sort of thing, people defending their right to get ripped off! All credit to the organisers, create enough hype and you can do whatever you want with a sold out event. Tell you what - get in a room of ironman competitors and you can breath the koolaid. Energetic, positive, motivated, resiliant, successful people. I said to a friend at last year's 70.3 race briefing this would be a great pool of people to recruit from.fair enough, but kind of obvious since the entry fees restrict the field to LSM 7-10.
JGR Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 I love this sort of thing, people defending their right to get ripped off! All credit to the organisers, create enough hype and you can do whatever you want with a sold out event. fair enough, but kind of obvious since the entry fees restrict the field to LSM 7-10.That is simply not true. This is the premier event for the sport and a PROAM with qualifing slots for World Champs not a local triathlon. Remind me of the cost of mtb stage races? Also expensive for one is not expensive for another Thirdly this is cycling forum - we all get ripped new ones Normally your comments are constructive - I dont see what you are getting at coming onto the ironman thread and then dissing people who love the sport? or calling them idiots for paying their hard earned money. This discussion was not about the cost of the race but rather the refund policy. I dont think anyone has complained about the initial cost of the entry Im certainly far from LSM 7-10
dracs Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 I love this sort of thing, people defending their right to get ripped off! All credit to the organisers, create enough hype and you can do whatever you want with a sold out event. fair enough, but kind of obvious since the entry fees restrict the field to LSM 7-10.Cool chap. Well done, and enjoy not competing and commenting from the outside. And congratulations on being so much cleverer than the 2000 of us victims of the IM marketing machine.
sluiper Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 I love this sort of thing, people defending their right to get ripped off! All credit to the organisers, create enough hype and you can do whatever you want with a sold out event. fair enough, but kind of obvious since the entry fees restrict the field to LSM 7-10. Fair points. Whether it's a rip-off or not is up for debate. What does an experience cost and how much is it worth to you? To a large extent what you're paying for is the experience on the day (that's my justification, in any case). In terms of the LSM metric: it would be interesting to find out whether the people fall within LSM 7-10 because they have the drive to complete something like an Ironman, or whether they're competing in an Ironman because they fall within LSM 7-10.
sluiper Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 Im certainly far from LSM 7-10 I'm pretty sure you do: http://www.eighty20.co.za/databases/show_db.cgi?db=fulllsmcalculator
Shebeen Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 Cool chap. Well done, and enjoy not competing and commenting from the outside. And congratulations on being so much cleverer than the 2000 of us victims of the IM marketing machine. I'd love to do an ironman/long distance triathlon event. but not at that price, I just can't justify it on the basis of value for money. I'm pretty sure this is a barrier to entry for many, I'm not scared to talk up about it. If I was really "clever" I'd put that cartoon video up. ok enough from me here on this, stand by my views. Enjoy the training for all who've entered.
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