ccc2 Posted June 19, 2013 Share i follow racing, particularly CX, in the States quite a bit. The issue of sanctioning races has become a hot topic there - particularly with reference to licensed riders not being allowed to race in very lucrative and popular races due to constraints placed on them by the UCI. This has been shelved for the moment, but has not been taken off the table altogether. i know about this and it's going to be interesting to see the outcome My question for the knowledgeable here is this: Why, if I am a recreational rider with no vested interest in the pro scene of the CSA , would I need to purchase a day license - and here is the kicker - if the race is unsanctioned by and unaffiliated to the CSA, and is held on private land (GIBA/Holla etc)? No local authority buy-in, no police involvement, no red tape. u take a big chance, all u need is someone to get hurt and knows a clever lawyer Jut me and few hundred mates enjoying a day in the bush with prizes on offer. see above What if I want to put up 50k for a weekend's awesome riding - enduro, CX, XC. do it thru the right channels and then u won't lose any sleep or worry about "what ifs" How do I benefit by carrying the cost of administering the collection and payment of the day-license fees to CSA? u don't , u buy a book of day licenses up front and then sell them and keep the proceeds. How would the riders beneifit? they don't, they need a race number, members pay X , non members XX which includes a license to ride (just like running) The question here is why would this be enforceable? If it is. it isn't hence the stand off between PPA & CSA Doing a provincial race/road race/track cycling meet etc - i do understand the need for CSA. Outside of that? I really don't. u don't need CSA for the above other than for guidance and information/regulations regarding and ensuring that all rider are licensed. so if anything goes wrong no-one can claim the 'but i didn't know" excuse. Genuine interest here, not just being argumentative.... Has anyone got any idea. its quite simplesport is a money making business.periodevery sport is regulated by one national bodyevery event is regulated by provincial goverment/municipality even the ones on private property.cycling in all its forms is a sport Chro Mo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Mo Posted June 19, 2013 Share Very illuminating. Thanks. One would have to have excellent insurance cover for these events, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmarc Posted June 19, 2013 Share i follow racing, particularly CX, in the States quite a bit. The issue of sanctioning races has become a hot topic there - particularly with reference to licensed riders not being allowed to race in very lucrative and popular races due to constraints placed on them by the UCI. This has been shelved for the moment, but has not been taken off the table altogether. My question for the knowledgeable here is this: Why, if I am a recreational rider with no vested interest in the pro scene of the CSA, would I need to purchase a day license - and here is the kicker - if the race is unsanctioned by and unaffiliated to the CSA, and is held on private land (GIBA/Holla etc)? No local authority buy-in, no police involvement, no red tape. Jut me and few hundred mates enjoying a day in the bush with prizes on offer. What if I want to put up 50k for a weekend's awesome riding - enduro, CX, XC. How do I benefit by carrying the cost of administering the collection and payment of the day-license fees to CSA? How would the riders beneifit? The question here is why would this be enforceable? If it is. Doing a provincial race/road race/track cycling meet etc - i do understand the need for CSA. Outside of that? I really don't. Genuine interest here, not just being argumentative.... Has anyone got any idea. Also been following whats happening in the USA. what is interesting is USAC are at least trying to get UCI to relax the rule. CSA on the other hand are doing nothing in this regard. If the UCI go unchallenged on this they will have carte blanche to do what they please in any country in the world with regards to cycling. In the States there are lots of very rich non-sanctioned events which are well supported by the pros, so they have strength in numbers, where in our case we basically have PPA which only represents WP. Almost every event is currently sanctioned. the only way we will get it right is when event organisers start refusing to pay CSA fees to sanction the events, and/or recreation cyclists refuse to pay/enter sanctioned events, in protest to the lack of delivery by CSA. I think this would work well in MTBing, because almost all events are on pvt land. So what would really happen. Some would argue that the Pro's would not be allowed to ride according to the UCI rule on prohibited events, Phat Pat was recently quoted that this rule doesn't only apply to Lic Pro and registered teams, it applies to all lic. types which means the recreational cyclist as well. So by the letter of the law if you have a lic and you take part as a recreational cyclist you could get fined or suspended.well that's fine for the recreational cyclist because i'll simply resign from CSA and support non sanctioned events. I don't care if the Pro's are not there, CSA can organize them their own qualifying races in accordance with UCI rules and i'll be a spectator. In fact PPA should go national and represent the recreational cyclist as well as the recreational racing snakes with their league races. If you turn Pro or want to do the Olympics then join CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazambaan Posted June 19, 2013 Share ccc2; I'm not so sure about every cycling event. With offroad motorcycles there are all sorts of dual sport and fun events which I'm pretty sure don't fall under MSA or WOMZA (not on their calendars) and, as far as I know all riders (pro's etc) can enter. There has been some hoo ha about events like the Roof of Africa but, for now, its smoothed over. MSA lost their court case to be the sole representative of offroad motorcycle sport in SA by the way. What the split has done it seems is sharpened MSA up as the previous perception was that they were milking dirt bikers to subsidise car racing. It's all a pity as both factions seem to have some good guys and um....... some not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted June 19, 2013 Share It would be nice if the Pro's can't ride the fun rides it will give some fun rider the chance to win. Fun rides are fun ride no pro rides. My 2c It splits two ways.First off, yes their are many trophy hunters, serious non professional licensed riders that choose obscure races to get that win (I know them as a-holes)Secondly if a fun rider rides for fun, why would they want to win anything for in the first place (pardon the pun) Brogue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnekop Posted June 19, 2013 Share In fact PPA should go national and represent the recreational cyclist as well as the recreational racing snakes with their league races. If you turn Pro or want to do the Olympics then join CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnekop Posted June 19, 2013 Share It would be nice if the Pro's can't ride the fun rides it will give some fun rider the chance to win. Fun rides are fun ride no pro rides. My 2c It splits two ways.First off, yes their are many trophy hunters, serious non professional licensed riders that choose obscure races to get that win (I know them as a-holes)Secondly if a fun rider rides for fun, why would they want to win anything for in the first place (pardon the pun) Agree with W.E. This is a funride. No prize money or prizes. If you want to earn a living, go pro. If not, bragging rights would be it...... My 2c Velouria and Brogue 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted June 19, 2013 Share Keep PPA to the Western Cape thanks. For an organization thats SO big on freedom of choice they will kill off any competition from other timing companies like Championchip and SAS etc. All races will now become Racetc or they wont be recognized, where does this leave race like Kremertart, Bela Bela, Carnival. I pay R75 total to race any race i want, PPA want something like R225 and then i have to conform to their rules and regulations NO THANKS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icycling Posted June 19, 2013 Share As the CSA F off topic got locked: I have a car which I don't necessary want to drive but need to for work purposes! I need to pay a license - it the rule of the country, you pay and move on! I don't race my car well maybe I do, we are lucky we don'y pay cycle license - we use too it was an allu disc - so to give R75 per annum via and online system to CSA, I don't actually see what the huge fuss is all about. We aren't paying to ride on the road anymore. How many new tubes can you buy with R75.00? If it means some talented young cyclist can go and get some international exposure and my R75 contributed towards that (even if only R1 out of the R75) - well thats OK. Oh S#@t I am looking at the bigger picture and we don't do that here. EZRider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportsworld.co.za Posted June 19, 2013 Share I think this may be why a lot of people are 'suspicious' of SASCOC / CSA involvement when you read an article like this. http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/GraemeJoffe/The-moral-decay-of-SA-sport-20130619 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted June 19, 2013 Share This actually has very little to do with the money.It's all about egos and those who want to become "celebrities" who happen to think they are bigger than the sport and in the end of the day the cyclists are being stomped to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricochet_rabbit Posted June 19, 2013 Share i follow racing, particularly CX, in the States quite a bit. The issue of sanctioning races has become a hot topic there - particularly with reference to licensed riders not being allowed to race in very lucrative and popular races due to constraints placed on them by the UCI. This has been shelved for the moment, but has not been taken off the table altogether. My question for the knowledgeable here is this: Why, if I am a recreational rider with no vested interest in the pro scene of the CSA, would I need to purchase a day license - and here is the kicker - if the race is unsanctioned by and unaffiliated to the CSA, and is held on private land (GIBA/Holla etc)? No local authority buy-in, no police involvement, no red tape. Jut me and few hundred mates enjoying a day in the bush with prizes on offer. What if I want to put up 50k for a weekend's awesome riding - enduro, CX, XC. How do I benefit by carrying the cost of administering the collection and payment of the day-license fees to CSA? How would the riders beneifit? The question here is why would this be enforceable? If it is. Doing a provincial race/road race/track cycling meet etc - i do understand the need for CSA. Outside of that? I really don't. Genuine interest here, not just being argumentative.... Has anyone got any idea. For MTB events held on private property this is probably possible. The only concern for an event organiser is that they abide but the recent legislation regarding hosting of an event and obtaining the necessary insurance. With respect to Road events which are held on public roads you will probably find CSA putting pressure on municipalities not to approve the race as it has not been sanctioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricochet_rabbit Posted June 19, 2013 Share What is all the fuss about ? Most cyclists probably do somewhere between 10 & 20 events a year. Everyone is throwing their toys out of the cot for a R75-00 licence and R6-00 per event...so for someone who rides 20 events a year that would be an extra R195.00 per year, come on people...R195.00...really, most of you probably spend that at the bar buying a round without even blinking or if you don't drink, ask yourself this. As a percentage of your cycling related spend annually (whether it be spares or clothing) what does it work out to? Everyone can still join the PPA (Club) and ride all their events and the PPA can still continue with the good work they undoubtedly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAVI Posted June 19, 2013 Share Edited June 23, 2013 by Jacques Viljoen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp Posted June 19, 2013 Share Maybe in space but here on earth ...... it's all about the Money Please man,let's get real .Your small contribution is not going to make you poorer and even though we would like to every cent to be accounted for and even though there might be funds syphoned off (we don't know) the money is the smallest part of it. This is about ego, it's about recognition, getting your kid on the national team just because you are on the committee.Having everyone run to you and be friendly when you pitch up at a race, having enough status to be invited to all the classy functions, walking in to a wholesaler and they want to lick your nuts in to a highly polished brass goon. It's all about image, prestige and ego, the money just happens to be a nice little benefit on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guy in Pink Posted June 19, 2013 Share Where does the freedom of association guaranteed by the constitution come into this? Surely if some cyclists want to associate with the PPA and ride events organised by them they may, without being forced to associate to the CSA. Similarly the PSA is free not to associate with the CSA if it wishes not to.The Licence fee charged by the CSA is membership fee of that association by another name.We are free to associate or disassociate ourselves from any organisation, and involve ourselves and associations in any legal activity.Recreational cycling or sport is surely a legal activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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