CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[ccc2]

ccc2; I'm not so sure about every cycling event. With offroad motorcycles there are all sorts of dual sport and fun events which I'm pretty sure don't fall under MSA or WOMZA (not on their calendars) and, as far as I know all riders (pro's etc) can enter. There has been some hoo ha about events like the Roof of Africa but, for now, its smoothed over.

 

MSA lost their court case to be the sole representative of offroad motorcycle sport in SA by the way.

 

What the split has done it seems is sharpened MSA up as the previous perception was that they were milking dirt bikers to subsidise car racing. It's all a pity as both factions seem to have some good guys and um....... some not so good.

i hear what you say but as soon as u invite the public to an event , charge entry fee, give prizes then you are open to all kinds of legislation and organisers will be taking a chance if they don't get the relevant permission.

do MSA or Womza belong to SASCOC?

[madmarc]

Keep PPA to the Western Cape thanks.

 

For an organization thats SO big on freedom of choice they will kill off any competition from other timing companies like Championchip and SAS etc. All races will now become Racetc or they wont be recognized, where does this leave race like Kremertart, Bela Bela, Carnival. I pay R75 total to race any race i want, PPA want something like R225 and then i have to conform to their rules and regulations

 

NO THANKS.

 

Plus your R6 rider fee paid by the organizer to CSA which would be included in your race entry fee. So add up your races per year and depending on how many you do could end up being more than R225.

 

As far as the timekeeping companies go, this was a big problem some years back with the first ever national seeding ladder put together by cyclelab (I think) where a certain company refused to hand the results over to the national seeding ladder because of their refusal to pay for it. You will remember there was an icon next to the race on the ladder you had to select and it took you to the companies website so you could search for your time. But it was not included in your seeding calculation. After a lot of HooHaa they relented.

But today there are a number of timekeeping companies doing event timing, if they can convince race organizers to use their system then so be it. it's called business!!!

 

this has created a problem over the years, in that there is no 1 place we can go check our results, hence the national seeding ladder has virtually fallen away. CSA said they would take it over and KIA even sponsored them in this regard. I think that was 2 year ago, still today no national seeding ladder, another CSA failure.

 

Who cares what company times the event, as long as they provide you with an official finishing time, and they are prepared to let the national seeding ladder have the data for free, in order for riders to be seeded properly

[Thug]

 

Cycling SA pours all of its income and grants back into cycling in order to provide opportunities ............

 

 

Nonsense! As I indicated earlier in my comment, all its income is used to pay running costs. Only grant income is used for cycling and then, not all of it either!

[madmarc]

For MTB events held on private property this is probably possible. The only concern for an event organiser is that they abide but the recent legislation regarding hosting of an event and obtaining the necessary insurance. With respect to Road events which are held on public roads you will probably find CSA putting pressure on municipalities not to approve the race as it has not been sanctioned.

 

What insurance does CSA provide at a sanctioned event?

 

I'm sure that there are lots of insurance companies that specialize in event insurance.

 

What about golf days, it's a similar set up. Do they need to be sanctioned by their controlling body.....do they even have a controlling body????

[ccc2]

Very illuminating.

 

Thanks.

 

One would have to have excellent insurance cover for these events, I would think.

i've only dealt with the City of CT. between 50 - 2000 participants is deemed a small event - u need an event permit.

0-49 u don't need an event permit.

then u have to adress all other issues such as will there be fireworks, disaster managment, will tents be erected, medical plan,traffic plan, parking....blah blah blah.

i take out R1 000 000 liabiltiy ins cover for every event and we attract between 100 - 150 amateur racing cyclists to an event. cover costs R625 per event which is not bad.

[ccc2]

What insurance does CSA provide at a sanctioned event? public liability cover only

 

I'm sure that there are lots of insurance companies that specialize in event insurance.

 

What about golf days, it's a similar set up. Do they need to be sanctioned by their controlling body.....do they even have a controlling body???? u never have to pay to play in a "golf day". sponsor picks up all the costs

[Brogue]

Keep PPA to the Western Cape thanks.

 

I suspect PPA is perfectly happy to remain in the Western Cape , unfortunately CSA want to NATIONALISE the goldmine PPA and e-TROLL funriders without giving us ANY benefit whatsoever. The return on PPA fees is tangible, the return on CSA fees is a big fat zero whichever way anyone wants to spin it.

[Reden]

Lets not forget how this started. PPA was around long before CSA, when CSA was formed they first took out the VCA and GPPA then tried their luck with PPA but bit off a bit more than they could chew. I hope PPA tie them up in litigation untill the end of time. I have no doubt this will end up in the constitutional court, and i'm no lawyer but i think CSA will lose.

Was it not the Cycling Federation that started which eventually became CSA and the PPA was formed during the CF era?

[HeyYou]

?

[SciencetoSport]

i hear what you say but as soon as u invite the public to an event , charge entry fee, give prizes then you are open to all kinds of legislation and organisers will be taking a chance if they don't get the relevant permission.

do MSA or Womza belong to SASCOC?

 

MSA belong to SASCOC and even thou WOMZA promised that they will be affiliated to SASCOC because their lawyers have found a loophole it never happened and it was never going to. FIM (UCI to Msport) will not associate with WOMZA as their National Federation and hold MSA as their governing body in South Africa and sent a letter to WOMZA clarifying this.

 

This led to the National series held by WOMZA to be National WOMZA Championships and not a South African National Championship.

 

In saying that, WOMZA was very good for MSA with the court win and riders not renewing licences with MSA again. This caused MSA to do a complete make over and get rid or ALL of the corrupt and useless sods working within the certain motorsport facets namely motocross and offroad. This was in fact the best thing ever to happen at MSA and WOMZA is to thank for it.

 

As for WOMZA running a better National series did not really happen. The series seem to be good in certain aspects and worse in others leaving the sport very divided and actually worse off as a whole cause the numbers are not there like in cycling in SA considering a National MX event gets about 100-150 riders.

 

I hope this PPA vs CSA deal gets sorted out quick cause of the drama that went on between the affiliations above is not pretty and cycling doesn't need this.

[ccc2]

agree, whichever way it falls i hope all those concerned who really know cycling get their acts together.

csa was at its best when the ppa chairman lawrence whittikar was elected csa pres. he had the vision for the future. pity the ppa and a few oddballs got together and voted him out and Greg Till in.

[ccc2]

madmarc, on 11 June 2013 - 11:19 , said:

 

Lets not forget how this started. PPA was around long before CSA, when CSA was formed they first took out the VCA and GPPA then tried their luck with PPA but bit off a bit more than they could chew. I hope PPA tie them up in litigation untill the end of time. I have no doubt this will end up in the constitutional court, and i'm no lawyer but i think CSA will lose.

just like the 2 ill informed clowns from the Wes Cape provincial goverment. most are just guessing or are clueless.

the csa came about when the ppa & the sacf amalgamated. prior to that you had the sacf and the wpppa, the wpppa was formed in the 1980's, the sacf , donkeys years ago - they were corrupt and useless. none of those involved from the days of the sacf are now involved.

[carbon29er]

u never have to pay to play in a "golf day". sponsor picks up all the costs

Really?

 

Golf days are mostly about raising funds for a cause/charity/school. Every participant usually pays a nice price (donation?) to be able to play. And sponsors pay to increase the funds raised, not provide freebies to the golfers.

 

Your argument remains all over the place, as stated a few weeks ago.

[Stretch]

 

 

CSA said they would take it over and KIA even sponsored them in this regard. I think that was 2 year ago, still today no national seeding ladder, another CSA failure.

Serious misinformation there dude. Csa put out a tender to do this with Kia sponsorship..awarded the tender...and then all went quiet...then the Kia seeding index suddenly popped up as a commercial venture....cycling in all aspects is underhanded

Edited June 19, 2013 by Stretch

[ccc2]

Really?

 

Golf days are mostly about raising funds for a cause/charity/school. Every participant usually pays a nice price (donation?) to be able to play. And sponsors pay to increase the funds raised, not provide freebies to the golfers.

 

Your argument remains all over the place, as stated a few weeks ago. Really - when did i have an argument with anyone

my neighbour plays in a 'golf day' once a month, is always invited into a 4 ball - never paid, my in law family - the same. maybe golfers luck or they just nice people.

[Wayne Potgieter]

my neighbour plays in a 'golf day' once a month, is always invited into a 4 ball - never paid, my in law family - the same. maybe golfers luck or they just nice people.

ive also always paid for a golf day. Never had a free one.