XX1

[Paul Ruinaard]

Now that explains your Hub name pretty well

Aah a Troll. I wondered which rocks you guys lived under ?

 

See what I was actually saying is that SRAM XX1 is fancy marketing to extract you dollars from you. It is innovative in which way - you can build this on your existing group sets sing clutch derailleurs and Wolf Rings.

 

But you see it doesn't have the bling factor, the wow, the swoon of "look what hes riding" if you do that.

 

So be my guest - pony up your hard earned Randelas to the bike shops and convince yourselves there really is a difference.

 

Some clever engineering with finer tolerances means shorter maintenance windows, less tolerance for wear and consequently higher costs to run which is what someone was trying to point out earlier. But you will eventually understand that a fool and his money are easily parted.

 

Now go climb back under your stone - its bright out here where people think a bit and you may not handle the debate so well.It requires a bit of insight and process to get to a conclusion other than the obvious one which you seem to enjoy flocking to.

[Meentb]

The whole topic around XX1 which you decided to troll on is aimed at people who have experience with XX1.

 

You state your opinion which is really not valid in any way as its your opinion and not based on experience.

 

So go back to your box and play with something

[Paul Ruinaard]

IQ of 2, was it you sprouting the same *** in one of the other threads Shimano vs Sram recently.

 

So now we face a delema:

 

Either you are you a troll?

Your IQ really is 2.

You are still on that powerful prescription medication.

No wasn't me - first time I have pinned my credentials to the mast in this debate and I do want to see some reasoned opinion on the matter, not blind faith that whatever spews out of the machine next is better than what was there last or has been for a long time.

 

see my other post and you may understand a bit more. I must have worked on bikes for about 15 years now have reached some conclusions.

 

I ride a Record group set on my road bike which is over 10 years old and believe me I am a fat boy and it just carries on going. It cost me pornographic amounts at the time but has paid itself off over and over in lack of need for upgrades and no feelings of inadequacy on the line at any race.

 

I ride Shimano XTR/XT hybrid on the MTBs which have shifted in conditions which even I was amazed that they worked - Epic in 2006 and Sani 2 c same year as well as Barberton in the same year. If you were there and have a long memory you would understand. I use XT rings as XTR rings and clusters just cannot be justified.

 

I used a SRAM group set once and it simply broke under the strain and I couldn't get it to shift close to the same. SO I spoke to the mechanics (not the pimply sales guys in the front whose claim to fame is being a good rider ) at two to three reputable shops - like Josh at Cyclists and Jason at Mikes - not your average 2 wit school leaver but someone who has spannered bikes for years and asked them. And once they answered I asked some others as well, cause I was surprised The answer was always the same from the back room where the guys see it and know it and know it is ugly.

 

I leave you to conclude.

 

So, no not a troll. And I had a *** weekend so far so up for a fight :-)

[Iwan Kemp]

Go ask the bike shop mechanics. I have not heard one that recommends SRAM.....

SRAM is off my personal bikes. Preference? I suppose like Campy. costly but bullet proof.

 

No bike mechanic I spoke to would recommend SRAM and ia sked a few over the years. No BS.

 

Go Figure. Marketing Dollars? American versus Japanese engineering?Would you drive a GM Truck or a Toyota? Make mine Japanese....

Possible, but not really scientific. I've never in all my years of cycling heard a mechanic say to NOT buy a certain make. I've heard lots of preferences, but never a absolute "DO NOT BUY X". Your GM vs Toyota does not hold as Toyotas are made in SA for our conditions. GM's are imported with little to no change in spec for SA or Africa. You will also not like a US bought Toyota or VW.

 

IQ of 2, was it you sprouting the same *** in one of the other threads Shimano vs Sram recently.

 

So now we face a delema:

 

Either you are you a troll?

Your IQ really is 2.

You are still on that powerful prescription medication.

Troll. Have been established in more than one thread. Also not the 1st time the link between his username and real life has been made.

 

... you can build this on your existing group sets sing clutch derailleurs and Wolf Rings.

AM rings have only recently started rolling out and are yet to proof themselves.

 

Some clever engineering with finer tolerances means shorter maintenance windows, less tolerance for wear and consequently higher costs to run which is what someone was trying to point out earlier. But you will eventually understand that a fool and his money are easily parted.

XX1 so far proving to be longer lasting than XX and XTR

 

 

 

Now go climb back under your stone - its bright out here where people think a bit and you may not handle the debate so well.It requires a bit of insight and process to get to a conclusion other than the obvious one which you seem to enjoy flocking to.

So I take it you have ridden all these groupsets and indeed have been enlightened to the ways of the MTB'ing world?

 

It is innovative in which way...

Having been enlightened you really shouldn't be asking a a question like this. Go read up. It's innovative in quite a number of ways.

[Paul Ruinaard]

The whole topic around XX1 which you decided to troll on is aimed at people who have experience with XX1.

 

You state your opinion which is really not valid in any way as its your opinion and not based on experience.

 

So go back to your box and play with something

Hmm go have a look at the post on Wolf Rings and come have a look in my garage at the 1 x 10 group set I just finished building. I was thinking of a SRAM cluster but am not sure about hub compatibility, so haven't completed it yet.

 

So a.) I am qualified and b.) I do have some experience of the alternatives. Cost me about a derailleur and some rings, and some rare to find common sense, a bit of innovation and some work.

 

30 love i think the score is now. Tough troll this one.

[kosmonooit]

Now go climb back under your stone

 

lol

 

You have point in terms of hyping 'new' kit in the never ending pursuit of fatter bottom lines, but here's the thing IQ about the XX1: no front mech. That's a big plus for many, including all the top dawg XC racers many of course do not have to pay for it but still they all seem to be smiling about this innovation, and they are no fools.

[Iwan Kemp]

I used a SRAM group set once and it simply broke under the strain and I couldn't get it to shift close to the same. SO I spoke to the mechanics (not the pimply sales guys in the front whose claim to fame is being a good rider ) at two to three reputable shops - like Josh at Cyclists and Jason at Mikes - not your average 2 wit school leaver but someone who has spannered bikes for years and asked them. And once they answered I asked some others as well, cause I was surprised The answer was always the same from the back room where the guys see it and know it and know it is ugly.

 

That must be the reason why SRAM is outselling Shimano aftermarket and why they have made MASSIVE in roads in Shimano's OE market.

 

Anyway, SRAM vs Shimano is off topic.

[Paul Ruinaard]

That must be the reason why SRAM is outselling Shimano aftermarket and why they have made MASSIVE in roads in Shimano's OE market.

 

Anyway, SRAM vs Shimano is off topic.

I hear you on the sales numbers - but SRAM is OEM equipment on most American bikes and an upgrade option on their websites is SHimano, so don't confuse that as being better. Easier I think is the reply. Does Specialized/Giant/Trek and all the rest actually have to maintain their own bikes. Do they care?

 

Technically 1 x 11 is a great idea. At the price its at its stupid. And with a bit of savvy you can achieve the same thing at a lower cost. And as per the previous posts if you look at the tolerances on it, it is much finer so you are going to need to maintain it more. Have you seen the gauge of that chain?

 

How the hell is that off topic. Its a look at the spec sheet and the gauge of the chain as well as the engineering that's gone in to the front rings that any experienced engineer will tell you will require shorter maintenance windows.

 

So get off your soapbox about the sales figures as they count for squat other than higher margins for the bike manufacturers and quote some science.

 

Great idea, so are many other ideas. Maybe not the best idea in the longer term....

[Meezo]

 

lol

 

You have point in terms of hyping 'new' kit in the never ending pursuit of fatter bottom lines, but here's the thing IQ about the XX1: no front mech. That's a big plus for many, including all the top dawg XC racers many of course do not have to pay for it but still they all seem to be smiling about this innovation, and they are no fools.

 

You forgot to mention, winners of the epic were using what? The Cape Epic, multistage ultra marathon race.

 

But the sram shimamo debate will go on for as long as we have ego's.

 

I don't mind either as long as I'm on my bike I'm happy.

 

[kosmonooit]

.. front rings ....

 

Front ring (sinular)

 

Most of the problems I have on mtb is the front rings on my 3x9, 3x10 setups - chain suck, not being in the right ring for a climb, dropped chain etc so by eliminating this, its a great idea. Also those Al chains rings with skimpy teeth for shifting are the first to go. The 1x11 looks like it has much bigger teeth, hopefully less wear but on the flip side reduced contact area because of thinner chain.

 

XX has always been the up market expensive range with all the expensive materials (Carbon, Ti), the 'proving ground' which then filters down to X0, X9 etc and thats what we are saying here, they X0 of this 11x1 is coming out.

[Iwan Kemp]

Ai. So let's play...

 

I hear you on the sales numbers - but SRAM is OEM equipment on most American bikes and an upgrade option on their websites is SHimano, so don't confuse that as being better.

1. Giant is not American by a long shot.
   
2. Trek and Specialized offer both on some bikes (not locally though) due to public demand.
   
3. Shimano is not a UPGRADE just SRAM is not an UPGRADE option. It's an alternative. Upgrade option would be the bike comes with X9, but you can spec X0 or XTR.
   
4. Ask yourself why they would spec a certain brand "on most American bikes" if it's inferior and bound to lead to frustration.
   

Easier I think is the reply. Does Specialized/Giant/Trek and all the rest actually have to maintain their own bikes. Do they care?

Yes, as most people bring a bike back to a shop and say "I have a problem with my Giant's gears...". They spec:

1. What fits the intended RRP
   
2. What they get the best bulk deal on
   
3. What will add the most perceived value to the bike
   
4. What will give the least worries once out in the wild
   

Technically 1 x 11 is a great idea. At the price its at its stupid

Correct. But that's in part due to the fact that as the top of the line groupset it has to cost the most so it has to come back to X7, X9, X0 and XX costing too much

 

And with a bit of savvy you can achieve the same thing at a lower cost.

Not quite. With savvy you can only save on the crank . Other than that there is no other 1x11 speed option pr any other option that will give you the gear ratio without a front mech.

 

And as per the previous posts if you look at the tolerances on it, it is much finer so you are going to need to maintain it more.

Have you ridden XX1 for an extended period of time? If not I need not even engage you with a proper answer.

 

How the hell is that off topic.

Read the OP's question and the replies. You came blasting through the door with how crap SRAM is. That's what we refer to as "off topic".

 

Its a look at the spec sheet and the gauge of the chain as well as the engineering that's gone in to the front rings that any experienced engineer will tell you will require shorter maintenance windows.

Again, have you RIDDEN it? On a bike bike. For more than a month or further than around the block? Shorter maintenance periods than what in any case? What's your reference point?

 

So get off your soapbox about the sales figures as they count for squat other than higher margins for the bike manufacturers and quote some science.

Quote science? Do you perhaps mean "quote theory"? Besides, margin is nothing without volume.

 

I'll give you a (science) quote:

First law of holes: "If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." - Denis Healey

Edited June 30, 2013 by The Crow

[BrandonF_]

My first ever experience with Sram at Knysna 80km, well as I was lead to believe, FLAWLESS! I'll go X01 when this groupo is done!

[Flowta]

 

Aah a Troll. I wondered which rocks you guys lived under ?

 

See what I was actually saying is that SRAM XX1 is fancy marketing to extract you dollars from you. It is innovative in which way - you can build this on your existing group sets sing clutch derailleurs and Wolf Rings.

 

But you see it doesn't have the bling factor, the wow, the swoon of "look what hes riding" if you do that.

 

So be my guest - pony up your hard earned Randelas to the bike shops and convince yourselves there really is a difference.

 

Some clever engineering with finer tolerances means shorter maintenance windows, less tolerance for wear and consequently higher costs to run which is what someone was trying to point out earlier. But you will eventually understand that a fool and his money are easily parted.

 

Now go climb back under your stone - its bright out here where people think a bit and you may not handle the debate so well.It requires a bit of insight and process to get to a conclusion other than the obvious one which you seem to enjoy flocking to.

 

Umm WOLF rings are a copy of the XX1 rings.

 

YEs you can use clutch derailleurs but how are you going to get the spread of a 10-42 cassette with out using SRAM XX1 (or X01 in the near future)?

 

 

[Paul Ruinaard]

Ai. So let's play...

 

1. Giant is not American by a long shot.
   
2. Trek and Specialized offer both on some bikes (not locally though) due to public demand.
   
3. Shimano is not a UPGRADE just SRAM is not an UPGRADE option. It's an alternative. Upgrade option would be the bike comes with X9, but you can spec X0 or XTR.
   
4. Ask yourself why they would spec a certain brand "on most American bikes" if it's inferior and bound to lead to frustration.
   

 

Yes, as most people bring a bike back to a shop and say "I have a problem with my Giant's gears...". They spec:

1. What fits the intended RRP
   
2. What they get the best bulk deal on
   
3. What will add the most perceived value to the bike
   
4. What will give the least worries once out in the wild
   

 

Correct. But that's in part due to the fact that as the top of the line groupset it has to cost the most so it has to come back to X7, X9, X0 and XX costing too much

 

 

Not quite. With savvy you can only save on the crank . Other than that there is no other 1x11 speed option pr any other option that will give you the gear ratio without a front mech.

 

 

Have you ridden XX1 for an extended period of time? If not I need not even engage you with a proper answer.

 

 

Read the OP's question and the replies. You came blasting through the door with how crap SRAM is. That's what we refer to as "off topic".

 

 

Again, have you RIDDEN it? On a bike bike. For more than a month or further than around the block? Shorter maintenance periods than what in any case? What's your reference point?

 

 

Quote science? Do you perhaps mean "quote theory"? Besides, margin is nothing without volume.

 

I'll give you a (science) quote:

First law of holes: "If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." - Denis Healey

Ahem, sorry you are right, giant is a Taiwanese brand, largets bike manufacturer in the world though.

 

I guess you really do believe that the manufacturers are not looking at margin on their balance sheet and care about your group set reliability? I think you will be sorely mistaken. They care about maximizing shareholder value, business school 101. That's done by making obscene margin. That's the reason Giant exists as the biggest bike manufacturer in the world. Go research the Schwinn story, and see where naively gets you.

 

On your second point, the bike shop does the warranty not the manufacturer that's why they have a distribution network. Do you really think giant (Taiwan) or trek or specialized has a box of new derailleurs that they are keeping stock of for your bike. They do it through their distributor network, and as long as the aren't too many failures and the percentage is okay then they care rocks. Pay the disty a couple of percent extra to carry the warranty locally.

 

So ahem not so sure of your logic, but get that you love your XX 1.

 

 

[Paul Ruinaard]

 

 

Umm WOLF rings are a copy of the XX1 rings.

 

YEs you can use clutch derailleurs but how are you going to get the spread of a 10-42 cassette with out using SRAM XX1 (or X01 in the near future)?

Agreed, see other quote about rear cluster. But you can get close for less.

[Swart Kat]

Sjoe manne! Ek het maar net gevra waar kan ek n bike test ride wat gefit is met XX1! Ek het al beide Shimano en Sram besit en was happy met beide! Klink maar vir my ook bietjie snaaks dat n mechanic mense sal afraai om n sekerw ding te koop, maar dan ook weer, hy is n mechanic en het gewoonlik min òf geen experience op n mtb nie! Ek wonder dan maar net waarom sal sekere mense Sram clusters gebruik saam met Shimano? Seker omdat beide n baie goeie brand is en wys net hoe goed hul met mekaar kompeteer! Gaan kyk bietjie na daai link wat hier gepost is. Die ouens het rings gemaak wat op cluster fit en di ou sê self daar dat dit saam met ander cranks werk en dat hulle paar toetse gedoen het, MAAR dit bly en is nie dieselfde as XX1 nie! Ek persoonlik koop en gebruik goed wat gemaak is om spesifiek saam met mekaar te werk, want sodra jy jou eie goed try maak laat dit jou gewoonlik op die nodigste tyd jou in die steek!

Shimano sal kot voor lank volg met hul weergawe van 1 x 11 of selfs 1 x 12, who knows!

 

So ouens, AS ek die geld het sal ek selfs X01 opsit, maar tot dan wil ek net dalk eendag n XX1 groupo bike wil test ride!

 

Baklei julle ander maar verder oor die en daai, ek sit nou agteroor met n goeie glas rooiwyn.........

 

cheers manne