Gatfol for false advertisement

[Skylark]

Hannes , don't make a runner!!

I think your customers deserve an answer?

[extremelights]

Hannes , don't make a runner!!

I think your customers deserve an answer?

 

Sure I give best estimation on light from the LED. Ignore the optical losses and thermal efficiency at higher Temperature levels. That is in my opinion a lot closer than making up number just to claim higher lumen. I mean to go from an LED that actually produce 600 lumen to claiming 1200 which is not even based on theoretical Maximum?

[Cassie]

So WHY is lumen output so important to you guys??

Basically sounds like a typical cyclist (i'm generalizing here!!) d!ck measuring contest to me...

 

I got a magicshine light and I use it...it flippen bright...what more should I care about??

 

PS: for MOST of us - we vote with our wallets; Extremelights prices are very reasonable and the service that Hannes provides is great!! What more do you want? AND if those lights he sells were illegal (i.e patent infringement), surely SARS and the import police would have clamped down on his legitimate bussiness??

[Shebeen]

Sure I give best estimation on light from the LED. Ignore the optical losses and thermal efficiency at higher Temperature levels. That is in my opinion a lot closer than making up number just to claim higher lumen. I mean to go from an LED that actually produce 600 lumen to claiming 1200 which is not even based on theoretical Maximum?

ja bru, but you're still guessing.

 

I know your intentions are genuine, and no one is disputing that there's always going to be chancers out there when lumen output is the yardstick everyone is using. Especially when it's a theoretical impossibility.

 

But you can't claim any output using your methods. In fact you're using datasheets from suppliers, that's not actually a foolproof source either. Silly argument to wade into.

 

Rather win your business with word of mouth, reliability and excellent service. You seem to be doing that well.

[MuddyMike]

lumens, watts blah blah blah. I have a Ryder centuri 1000. I ride it on low setting 300LM and it lasts well over 12 hours. More than enough light and more than enough runtime. What more whould you need? Why would you need 2000lm unless you were trying to blind a springhare in the Karoo from Nelspruit?? Just buy something with backup service. This isnt rocket science...

[Reg Lizard]

Ek is maar net die ou kaalvoet mannetjie met my kaakie klere wat nie veel weet nie, so as iemand se Joeys se boeries is die beste, dan koop ek dit en probeer dit self.

[CAAD4]

 

 

The Exposure Maxx-D also costs more than R3000..... what changed???

 

Exposure then launched the Six Pack at around 5k....

[GoLefty!!]

you get what you pay for

[Skylark]

So WHY is lumen output so important to you guys??

Basically sounds like a typical cyclist (i'm generalizing here!!) d!ck measuring contest to me...

 

I got a magicshine light and I use it...it flippen bright...what more should I care about??

 

PS: for MOST of us - we vote with our wallets; Extremelights prices are very reasonable and the service that Hannes provides is great!! What more do you want? AND if those lights he sells were illegal (i.e patent infringement), surely SARS and the import police would have clamped down on his legitimate bussiness??

 

Huh?

 

More lumens is more light output, ie better visibility, yes that's why it's important!

 

One of the core technologies is brighter for longer, so if a seller says my light runs for 5hrs at maximum output of 800 lumems then as a buyer you'd like to trust that it's real 800 lumens not fong kong thumb suck lumens...

Edited August 13, 2013 by Skylark

[GoLefty!!]

All China lights are marketed with thumb suck lumen and run time ratings.

They come with cheap China lithium batteries and chargers too. Those batteries seldom life out their 5yr expected duration or minimum 500 charge cycles. The charger seldom charge the pack to 100% capacity and the packs become unbalanced with increased usage. Problem with our society is that we don't care about the truth as long as someone gives a us a placebo for now we're good to go.

If you bought into the hype then really it's your own fault.

[Bike Lore]

ja bru, but you're still guessing.

 

I know your intentions are genuine, and no one is disputing that there's always going to be chancers out there when lumen output is the yardstick everyone is using. Especially when it's a theoretical impossibility.

 

 

I agree. But contrary to popular belief that is what engineering is. Engineer guess. granted it is based on theory and experience but at some point a guess/assumption is done. Even if you think you are measuring it is not real.

 

To be fully truthful any measurement is wrong at some tolerance level. The actual act of measuring makes it wrong ironically. All manufactures good vary between batches. No matter how good the manufacturer quality control is. To state a single value is wrong by default. Let say a manufacture sells 1 meter poles. It is impossible to make a 1m pole that is exactly 1m. There is only one piece of material in the world that is 1 meter. No matter how accurate you work you can always be out at some scale. It may be out by 1/100000000000000 mm or less but that is not 1 meter.

 

My point is and why I am really gutvol is that I think that being within an acceptable range it is ok but not what is happening now. I think an acceptable tolerance for light are within 20%. The reason is that when it comes to light you need to have the output double to even be able to see any change. But to be out by 300% or more is crazy. That is why don't worry about what happens after the LED. What happens after the LED will not effect the light more than 20%. Well not if it is relatively clear unit. I can be wrong but that is my call on it.

 

You can peg your tolerance where you like but I am sure you agree that it is getting ridicules. To totally ignoring the power used and to then assume maximum theoretical output is pushing it. To then go an make it 50%- more is nuts. To claiming 1200 lumen from a light that has a theoretical max of 700 so really absurd!!!!. Or if we even measure the light 400 Lumen will be rounding up so how do one even get to 1200 lumen. or 6600 lumen.

 

 

But you can't claim any output using your methods. In fact you're using datasheets from suppliers, that's not actually a foolproof source either. Silly argument to wade into.

 

I Disagree. That is how it is done on most of not all reliable retail products. The manufacture measures a sample batch and then get a variation and average. The unit then get branded and ladled and at some point the best number is selected. Some base there claims on the actual products performance, which you are suggesting, others on some element of the product. But at some point there is truth in the claim I hope. If it is out 20% when it comes to light it does not really matter. i.m.o

 

I don't think Cree them self-will risk over claiming. There tolerance is 7%. There datasheets provide the information that reflects their products. If you understand statistics you should be able to get very close to what is really happening. With in limits as you point out.

 

Take for example alkaline batteries. 1.5V? or 1.2V? have you ever measured one? Or a litre of milk. Or even power supplies. Or light bulls: 40W, 60W, 200W all are within some value with some tolerance that is chosen by the manufacture at some point in time. The idea is to give the user some idea of what to expect. it does not have to be the real value but it should be close.

 

 

Rather win your business with word of mouth, reliability and excellent service. You seem to be doing that well.

I do my best and it looks like Extremelights are getting traction. In the process we had some learning experiences (mistakes). It is just very demoralizing when the competitors goes and deceives people so much. But as was stated I do the same at some level.

[Bike Lore]

you get what you pay for

 

Or not. ;-)

[Skylark]

Hannes if you thumbsuck you are just as bad as the rest, maybe you are even worse, who knows?

If lights are your business then go out of your way to provide accurate specs to your customers, you are expecting them to accurately pay you the right amount of money huh?

 

It's not very hard to do rather accurate actual light output readings without bench equipment, google it - lots of info on the net.

 

Edited August 21, 2013 by Skylark