Ironman...not just about the refund, why not sub?

[fabes]

I think people are far too quick to jump to ranting in these circumstances. Maybe sit down and considered what goes into organising an event like this... You're one person out of how many entrants? You interact as an individual to the administrate for events. It is NOT the same the other way around...

 

How many communications are these admins dealing with daily? When signing up and paying for an event of this nature, you agree to the terms and conditions they set. It is their event, not yours. They determine what they are prepared to do or not. That's up to them. Then they put those terms in writing for everyone to read and accept (or not accept).

 

I am sorry that your wife had an accident and is not able to compete. This is the nightmare we all dread when signing up and training for such an event, but life happens. Sorry to say, but it does. There are many things wrong in the world. Most, way worse than not being able to sub an entry for an event.

 

Rather spend your time and effort helping your wife recover and getting ready for the next one Life is to short to rant over such things (still learning this )

So you saying people must just shut up if they are not happy? This Rant has valid points and I am sure people can discuss them if they want.

 

You also say he is one person out of how many entrants. Well I can promise you out of the 2200 entrants paid up for IMSA 2014 more than one person will get injured and not be able to compete. It is part of the nature of the sport. So maybe this should be taken into account by the Organizers

[Marius]

I wanted to do the Ironman once till I saw how much it cost and thought, f*k it, I don't need the certificate to prove I can do it.

[pd2dk]

Sorry to hear about your wife, but I for one am in complete agreement with their policy.

 

As soon as you start allowing subs/transfers, you're going to get people selling their entries at an inflated price. Nothing irritates me more than people scalping tickets to make money off someone else.

 

Agreed, but still no logical reason. Scalping can be prevented by administering the subs. I.e. injured athlete fills in form, attaches injury report and enter details of sub. Therefor sub cannot enter on scalped ticket..Fees are handled be IM guys, not athletes...

[Patchelicious]

I agree 100% - it's all about the money!

 

Ok Julius, so tell me do you go to work for free or for the greater good of some sport, or do you work in exchange for freeing battery chickens? Of course its about the money, its a business. Did you think they do it make people fitter, or because they have an interest in the sale of neoprene suits? I promise you it is not to support the local beach either.

 

There should be a FAIR exit clause, I am sure there is, it was probably agreed too. I too lost my full amount by not going to the race, but I knew I would. If you want to say its a "medical" issue, then there must be a criteria for this. I didnt want to do it because I am scared of sharks, that too probably has a nice long medical name.

 

BUT this mentality that other people are not allowed to make money sounds a bit like some wannabe politicians....

 

Viva communism Viva ............. NOT

[JGR]

Please don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with the fees, yes it is steep, but organizing the event definitely costs a bit. My issue is also not with the guys getting cold feet and now want's to quit and get their money back. Someone mentioned if 30% want's to sub...well I hope that there aren't so many taxi caused injuries! If you get cold feet you pay!

 

I just don't understand if you are injured, I'm not talking a cut or bruise - I'm talking she cannot lift her arms above her shoulders, has a plate in left shoulder, stitches are still in, so she can physically not take part. Why then is a sub not posible.

 

And yes we read the terms and conditions, but who can plan when to get hit by a taxi? If this happened while you can still get part of your refund to use for medical costs, this post will not exist, but this happened today two weeks ago. 15 Oct.

I understand your point and was in the same boat - having just missed the last refund date with my injury. I bring it back to then what consitutes the grounds for a refund?

 

As many have mentioned the events are super well run and this is probably down the the fact they plan well in advance and hence no changes on short notice.

 

I think the moment they allow one case more will follow

[sluiper]

Agreed, but still no logical reason. Scalping can be prevented by administering the subs. I.e. injured athlete fills in form, attaches injury report and enter details of sub. Therefor sub cannot enter on scalped ticket..Fees are handled be IM guys, not athletes...

 

No, sorry, but it doesn't work. I've seen this time and again with the Argus and other sold out events. Even when the organisers handle the transfer (like the Argus), there's always some @rsehole who wants to make a quick buck at the expense of someone else.

[Patchelicious]

I agree with him, he is not after a refund. Yes he agreed to the refund policy but why don't IMSA implement a substitution policy. 1 x paid entry = 1 x slot into the race. I would do anything for a slot into the 70.3 in Jan but due to me having to pay for 2 people (my wife and myself) I had to wait a while for entering, we then got put on the waiting list and are like 400 odd on the list. Now I know of someone who wants to sell their entry for the asking price but I cannot substitute it into my name. He has to fill out a refund form, he then gets 25% back and they resell the entry to the next person on the list for the full price. So for that 1 slot they will be paid R 2975 (Worked out @ R 1700 an entry). That is a bit rough.

 

However I enjoy the brand in every other aspect. Each race you go to it is very well organised and it works well. I just think they should look into this

 

My brain exploded just trying to read that, now you want some organizer to carry an additional management overhead to deal with this too? You do know that it would mean they need to pay more salaries, therefore charging more or charging sub fees to deal with it.... which will create a whole new thread of why these "selfish exploiters" are only after money....

[pd2dk]

My brain exploded just trying to read that, now you want some organizer to carry an additional management overhead to deal with this too? You do know that it would mean they need to pay more salaries, therefore charging more or charging sub fees to deal with it.... which will create a whole new thread of why these "selfish exploiters" are only after money....

 

Logical - get the numbers, how many entrants gets injured - again not something you can still compete with - so you can physically not compete. May not be that much to warrant more costs, may just be as easy as replacing one athlete with another? How long does online entry take? 2 minutes, 5 minutes? So how long should sub take? Get the name, get the proof of injury, add 5 minutes to enter new athlete?

[JGR]

I agree with him, he is not after a refund. Yes he agreed to the refund policy but why don't IMSA implement a substitution policy. 1 x paid entry = 1 x slot into the race. I would do anything for a slot into the 70.3 in Jan but due to me having to pay for 2 people (my wife and myself) I had to wait a while for entering, we then got put on the waiting list and are like 400 odd on the list. Now I know of someone who wants to sell their entry for the asking price but I cannot substitute it into my name. He has to fill out a refund form, he then gets 25% back and they resell the entry to the next person on the list for the full price. So for that 1 slot they will be paid R 2975 (Worked out @ R 1700 an entry). That is a bit rough.

 

However I enjoy the brand in every other aspect. Each race you go to it is very well organised and it works well. I just think they should look into this

Im not sure of the policies of 5150 but IM allow you to use the entry for another race and not just a refund.

 

5150 is alsi in relative infancy and maybe in the future they will change the policy, like they have done at IM (albeit not to everyones likeing)

[JGR]

Logical - get the numbers, how many entrants gets injured - again not something you can still compete with - so you can physically not compete. May not be that much to warrant more costs, may just be as easy as replacing one athlete with another? How long does online entry take? 2 minutes, 5 minutes? So how long should sub take? Get the name, get the proof of injury, add 5 minutes to enter new athlete?

Rather ask how much a developer would charge to change the systems ect. I think there is more to it than just a few key strokes.

 

IM have a refund/sub policy however they stop it when it gets close to the race so the gripe is actually about when they stop taking refunds/subs?

[fabes]

My brain exploded just trying to read that, now you want some organizer to carry an additional management overhead to deal with this too? You do know that it would mean they need to pay more salaries, therefore charging more or charging sub fees to deal with it.... which will create a whole new thread of why these "selfish exploiters" are only after money....

Well sorry mate I didn't type it out in big words for you and put out pictures to help assist you understand something so simple.

 

It would not mean they have to pay more salaries. If you charge people a substitution fee as mentioned in another post the labor to run the substitutions will be covered and a small profit can be made and it will contribute to the good business they are already running.

 

It have no problem with IMSA making money and I think what they have done in this Small city is GREAT and a lot more people have gained from Ironman in this city other than just IMSA. However I think this area of substitutions can be looked at again

[Patchelicious]

(albeit not to everyones likeing)

 

Nothing ever is. Start allowing subs to make the few injured happy, and a whole new can of issues will opened up.

Things like scalping, disorganized events etc... leading to.... yes you guessed it, more people moaning.

[sluiper]

Logical - get the numbers, how many entrants gets injured - again not something you can still compete with - so you can physically not compete. May not be that much to warrant more costs, may just be as easy as replacing one athlete with another? How long does online entry take? 2 minutes, 5 minutes? So how long should sub take? Get the name, get the proof of injury, add 5 minutes to enter new athlete?

 

Look, seriously, I understand your pain. But give me 20 minutes and R300 and I can get a doctor's certificate specifying any injury you'd like.

 

I would be completely against them changing their policy. Ironman is the one event that doesn't have a bunch of hyenas picking around at the edges because of the "no substitution" policy.

 

I wish more events would have this policy.

[Tumbleweed]

I was listening to Advocate Neville Mellville speaking about the CPA on 702 the other night and given the circumstances of your wife's injuries, I'm sure there refusal to refund falls foul of the Consumer Protection Act.

 

I would take the matter up with relevant authorities.

 

Good luck with the authorities. The Consumer Comm is a mess. So is the CPA in this regard. There is a "reasonable" fee levied in the case of cancelling a contract. The cellphone companies are ravaging us on this clause.

[fabes]

Im not sure of the policies of 5150 but IM allow you to use the entry for another race and not just a refund.

 

5150 is alsi in relative infancy and maybe in the future they will change the policy, like they have done at IM (albeit not to everyones likeing)

I don't think they do allow this

[Patchelicious]

Well sorry mate I didn't type it out in big words for you and put out pictures to help assist you understand something so simple.

 

However I think this area of substitutions can be looked at again

 

Big words would just confuse me, so thank you for refraining from such a horrid prospect.

 

Yes, they could look at it, and its great that you are actually one of the few to propose ideas. Its just that as per my post above, try keeping everybody happy is difficult and expensive.